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5:24 pm
January 29, 2012
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MartinAltman
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| Grinding Micros | posts 47 | |
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Post edited 5:29 pm – January 29, 2012 by MartinAltman
What's up guys!
It was 22$ 6max mtt on Stars, I was 5/100, he was like 10/100, 54 paid. We both were very agg, but mostly preflop. Ok, so I don't wanna be results oriented, just wanna know if (and when?) I can fold in this spot. 1st question is if my 3bet otf is correct (Would you sometimes just call and trap preflop opener?)? 2nd question is if I can even think about folding against this opponent (as I wrote he had been pretty agg and we played few interesting spots against each other where at least one of us was light). He will imo 3bet his JJ+, maybe 99+ preflop and I'm not sure if he'll play draw (99, A9s, any AXs…) this way or if he'll just call PFR's cbet. My read was he has 88 about 40%(not sure exactly how often tho) of time and then 60% of time 99, TT, A9s, AXs, maybe sometimes JJ, J9, 78, T9, 5d6d etc. I'm not very good at math, but IMO we are not significantly aheah of range he's representing. 3rd question is how would our decision change if a) villain was random not agg; b) 8 or 7 wasn't diamond but heart or club?
Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t250/t500 Blinds + t60 – 6 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
santiga (CO): BB = 22.3, t11146
ColinBakes (BTN): BB = 49.0, t24507
simonek1323 (SB): BB = 33.5, t16768
Hero (BB): BB = 62.6, t31287
thawright (UTG): BB = 54.0, t27009
vanderober (MP): BB = 42.6, t21319
Pre Flop: (t1110) Hero is BB with 7 7
1 fold, vanderober raises to t1500, 1 fold, ColinBakes calls t1500, 1 fold, Hero calls t1000
Flop: (t5110) 7 T 8 (3 players)
Hero checks, vanderober bets t2000, ColinBakes raises to t4500, Hero raises to t9000, vanderober folds, ColinBakes raises to t22947 all in, Hero ?
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9:13 am
January 30, 2012
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running0uts
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| Small Stakes Grinder | posts 79 | |
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On the flop I am also 3betting for value and protection, and looking to get it in. So I would call his shove, gross as it is. If he does have an overset then it's just a cooler, if he has a straight then again it's kind of a cooler but at least you still have outs. I think he could be doing this with a monster draw too, and depending on the player it could even be 2pair. I don't like 3betting the flop to then fold to a 4bet with the odds you are then getting. Call and hope.
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7:54 pm
January 30, 2012
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bennymacca
| | Adelaide Australia | |
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i would prolly make it more like 11k with your 3bet, or even more than that. make it look like you are trying to semi bluff with a draw. your min raise screams set to me.
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9:18 pm
January 30, 2012
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hawkeyeK9
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| Hitting The Panda | posts 927 | |
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Well villian 3bets Vanderober and you 4bet. I would also 4bet but would make it bigger like benny said, about 11k. After that not folding. If it is set over set or he hits flush or straight just sigh.
Since the board is so wet, the only way to avoid the inevitable is calling whole way and folding diamond or 9 on turn or river. You may still lose more than half your stack doing this but would preserve your tournament life.
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10:06 pm
January 30, 2012
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bennymacca
| | Adelaide Australia | |
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hawkeyeK9 said:
Well villian 3bets Vanderober and you 4bet. I would also 4bet but would make it bigger like benny said, about 11k. After that not folding. If it is set over set or he hits flush or straight just sigh.
Since the board is so wet, the only way to avoid the inevitable is calling whole way and folding diamond or 9 on turn or river. You may still lose more than half your stack doing this but would preserve your tournament life.
sorry to get picky, vanderober bets, then villain raises (2bet) , then we 3bet. preflop you would be correct because the blind is counted as the first bet.
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1:11 am
January 31, 2012
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hawkeyeK9
| | Kansas City | |
| Hitting The Panda | posts 927 | |
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My apologies. 
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6:26 am
January 31, 2012
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MartinAltman
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| Grinding Micros | posts 47 | |
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bennymacca said:
i would prolly make it more like 11k with your 3bet, or even more than that. make it look like you are trying to semi bluff with a draw. your min raise screams set to me.
Yeah good point, but at the same time if I was ever bluffing this I might make it 9k instead of 11k to make it look stronger and also to lose less if they don't fold.
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11:01 am
February 3, 2012
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JLUDEOBV
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| High Stakes Shark | posts 157 | |
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Post edited 11:03 am – February 3, 2012 by JLUDEOBV
Question 1: Never flat the raise here. When I 3 bet on the flop I make it 10,500. Question 2: I am never folding here for 3 reasons. First is because this board is so draw heavy that he is likely to get it in on several big draws, second is because of this guys aggro image he might be getting it in lighter than you think, and third is because you have this guy covered and would still be okay (12 bb's) if you happened to lose the hand. Question 3: Against a guy that isn't as aggro I more than likely still get it in due to the fact that the villain has around 50 bb's. If you both had 100+ it would definitely be a different story. If you get it in and you are beat then it's a pretty obvious cooler. The 8 or 7 changing suit really doesn't change much imo. Random flush draws are obviously in his range but pair/straight draw hands, straight draw hands, and 2 pair hands are much more likely. If he does have flush and straight draw combo, you are slight dog but you have outs on the river if he binks the turn. I would be interested in hearing your logic behind him having 88 40% of the time and the hands you listed for 60% as I find those percentages absurd.
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3:39 pm
February 3, 2012
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emufart
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| Grinding Micros | posts 56 | |
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Ask yourself what you were trying to achieve when you put in the 3bet on the flop. If it was beacause you flopped a monster, and wanted to build a big pot where you are likely a significant favourite, then you should snap off this shove.
If however it was because you were trying to represent a straight in the hopes of bluffing him off a higher set, then your bet has failed, and you should fold now.
I know that my last sentence may sound a bit silly, but if you fold to this bet, then that's exactly what you've done.
Never fold here.
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9:53 pm
February 3, 2012
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micahkg
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| Lighting Money On Fire | posts 24 | |
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+1 to emufart. I like the simplicity of that argument, what are you trying to achieve with the raise? It seems like you are trying to build a pot, get value off worse hands (draws, 2 pairs etc) and get the money in, so if you do this snap call and gg if he has bigger set or straight (obv prefer straight as you have a lot more outs).
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4:57 pm
February 4, 2012
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MartinAltman
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| Grinding Micros | posts 47 | |
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After few days I now think I can't fold in this spot (and I didn't fold as played, but after reviewing that hand I thought it's pretty close). Still not sure what would be correct if villain was tighter and there wasn't possible flushdraw. Anyway thanks for all reactions, especially for emularts. I also think it would be weird to 3bet/fold otf in this spot.
JLUDEOBV: That % were just what I thought he might have. I didn't think he has draw very often and I thought he would sometimes 3bet TT and sometimes just fold pre hands like T8,T9,89. Those % obv might be way off, but you could write your opinion about how often he'll have set, draw etc. instead of saying they are absurd.
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5:44 pm
February 4, 2012
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JLUDEOBV
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| High Stakes Shark | posts 157 | |
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Didn't mean to sound rude or anything. His range is just so wide, I really think he gets it in with a lot of hands on this flop. That's the only reason I said those percentages were absurd. It's really nearly impossible to put a % on how often you think he'll have a set or other hands here based on his range and the board texture.
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