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Two pair is just a bluff catch IP?
almofadinhas
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September 23, 2016 - 9:52 pm
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I raised this hand because i was on the btn, two calls, otf i decided to make a delay cbet ott if checked to me, but i hit turn, and then hit river again, V leads turn and river, I was unsure if I had to reraise otr. I need to do ranges exercise, sorry for the post if this is too obvious.

WPN, 15/30 blinds No Limit Hold’em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager – The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: 10,120 (337.3 bb)
BB: 9,900 (330 bb)
UTG+1: 9,850 (328.3 bb)
UTG+2: 10,360 (345.3 bb)
MP1: 10,080 (336 bb)
MP2: 9,850 (328.3 bb)
MP3: 8,370 (279 bb)
CO: 11,160 (372 bb)
Hero (BTN): 10,310 (343.7 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 8club Aclub
5 folds, CO calls 30, Hero raises to 90, SB calls 75, BB folds, CO calls 60

Flop: (300) 5spade Kheart 6heart (3 players)
SB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (300) Aspade (3 players)
SB bets 200, CO folds, Hero calls 200

River: (700) 8diamond (2 players)
SB bets 467, Hero calls 467? Or reraise?

joelshitshow
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September 24, 2016 - 11:21 am
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What does everyone think about limping behind pre?

Without reads, this board is pretty wet on the flop, with both straight and flush draws out there. The only blocker you have is an 8. I over-worry about the blind having a dopey 2 pair. Everyone being so deep means they might call you with K5/K6 because “lol it’s only 75 chips.” Anyway, if I raised pre, I am C-betting the flop if I plan on also firing more bullets later on. Otherwise I’m giving up unless I improve. My early stage play needs a lot of work, though. I don’t play a lot of cash, so my deep stack play is awful.

On the turn, I like the call. SB could have all kinds of 2 pair, and a raise only folds out worse hands. Representing a draw by raising may not matter as much because again everyone is super-deep.

On the river, a raise is interesting. AK is the only 2 pair that’s better. All the flush draws missed. 97 doesn’t make sense based on the SB’s turn bet. Could you get value from the aforementioned K5/K6 or maybe 65? If the SB had attempted a check raise on the flop, then it would make sense to try raising here.

This is a fairly common spot and one worth discussing 🙂

almofadinhas
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September 25, 2016 - 12:33 am
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I do limp sometimes, usually when is multiway, I think there is  more value to have a nut flush with more people, I raise because was one limp on late position.

I am not sure about K5, K6 type of hands on SB´s range actually, he has worst odds to pre flop call then the BB has, not sure about this tow.

joelshitshow said
… If the SB had attempted a check raise on the flop, then it would make sense to try raising here.

You cbet and call a ck/raise OTF? Why?

joelshitshow
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September 25, 2016 - 5:05 pm
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My mistake. I’m not calling a check-raise on the flop if I c-bet. Even a min-check-raise doesn’t deserve a float with only a runner-runner straight draw and one overcard.

theginger45

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September 26, 2016 - 11:08 am
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I like the raise pre and I like the decision not to c-bet.

I think the decision between raising and calling on the river really depends on two things:

1) Villain’s range for leading river

2) Villain’s range for calling a raise

When it comes to 1) I think it’s obvious villain would lead any two pair or better here, but the only two pairs that are really in their range for flatting the SB are maybe 65s, perhaps A5s or A6s. They can have a lot of busted flush draw bluffs and some one-pair value-bets with AT/AJ, but they can’t really have the straight. So their range contains a fair number of bluffs but it’s quite capped – probably the only parts of it we’re afraid of are 55/66, since they probably wouldn’t lead turn with 88.

As for 2), it’s sort of difficult to see us being able to get called by a worse two-pair since we block A5/A6 and villain might not flat much of that preflop anyway, and 56 isn’t super happy versus a river raise. We obviously get called by sets which we don’t like. The only other thing that might push us into raising territory would be if we felt villain could call with just one pair, like AT/AJ, but in order for that to be the case they have to expect us to bluff-raise this river some frequency. It’s possible since there are two missed flush draws, but it’s less likely.

In general I think when we block a lot of the hands we might be looking to get value from (those strong Ax hands) and it’s hard to see many weaker two-pair combos, I think we’re better off bluff-catching here. I think our range is mostly defined as bluff-catchers and villain’s is more polarized so as long as we make good bluff-catching decisions here I don’t think it really hurts us to not have much of a raising range at all, either for value as a bluff. I think calling is fine.

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