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Poker Stars $10 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t300/t600 Blinds + t50 – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
BTN: BB = 29.6, t17752
SB: BB = 29.3, t17550
BB: BB = 29.9, t17944
UTG: BB = 4.4, t2623
Hero (UTG+1): BB = 100.7, t60421
UTG+2: BB = 20.7, t12404
MP1: BB = 53.5, t32097
MP2: BB = 24.0, t14380
CO: BB = 59.8, t35860
Pre Flop: (t1350) Hero is UTG+1 with Q
Q
1 fold, Hero raises to t1277, 1 fold, MP1 raises to t2400, 5 folds, Hero raises to t6200, MP1 raises to t32047 all in, Hero?
MP1 had only been at the table 4 or so hands so no idea. I am 2nd in chips with ~400 left. I am trying not to be results oriented.
1) I thougt the min 3bet then shove looked very strong vs EP raise and 4bet.
2) I think i am needing 40% and if his range to 5bet AI here is ultra tight then I am right on it.
3) Do I just close my eyes and call here or can I fold and stay near the top in chips? IF I call and lose I would still be above avg.
I am constantly finding myself 2nd guessing whether to get it in or fold and saving my very good chip stack. And of course I lose and then I 2nd guess myself for weeks after.
If this is obvious i apologize
October 6, 2010
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interesting spot because you are so deep.
i think the mistake in the hand is your 4bet – if you are going to 4bet, then you pretty much have to get it in imo, which is marginal when you are this deep, as you have correctly pointed out.
otherwise you can flat villains 3bet and play poker from there. obv you are OOP but you could easily check call just about any flop and re-evaluate, and it will cost you the same price as the 4bet, but now you have seen 4 cards to try and narrow down his range.
and it looks strong for you to be flatting a 3bet and calling most flops so i doubt you will get barrelled on the turn, which means you can safely give up if villain fires 2 barells, and probably fire river for value if turn is checked through.
obviously i am assuming some type of safe board for us but i think you get the idea.
bennymacca said:
interesting spot because you are so deep.
i think the mistake in the hand is your 4bet – if you are going to 4bet, then you pretty much have to get it in imo, which is marginal when you are this deep, as you have correctly pointed out.
otherwise you can flat villains 3bet and play poker from there. obv you are OOP but you could easily check call just about any flop and re-evaluate, and it will cost you the same price as the 4bet, but now you have seen 4 cards to try and narrow down his range.
and it looks strong for you to be flatting a 3bet and calling most flops so i doubt you will get barrelled on the turn, which means you can safely give up if villain fires 2 barells, and probably fire river for value if turn is checked through.
obviously i am assuming some type of safe board for us but i think you get the idea.
Thanks for the reply benny,
I thought the 4 bet was bad after as well, in game I just was all wound up to see QQ and tried to induce a 5bet. Which ironically i got and then hated it.
Oh well, learn and on to the next one.
Thanks again
i think readless, trying to get QQ in PF for this many BBs from these positions is extremely optimistic and way too thin of an edge (if an edge at all) to push. you have a very nice stack and should be able to find WAY better edges to push than a 0-2% edge where you have to commit half your stack.
also, have a plan when you make a bet or a raise. know what you're trying to accomplish. if you 4bet here, it should be to get allin (well, for the most part. with the proper history you can def 4bet/fold).
you have the option of calling the 3bet, which will 1) keep the pot smaller and 2) keep villain's range as wide as possible. i mean, his range isn't wide to begin with, but better to keep the possibility of JJ/AQ in there than to 4bet and ensure that his range is QQ+, AK or KK+, AK.
as played, you need 38% and even against KK+, AK you have just shy of 40%. maybe he doesn't do this with AK though. i couldn't really fault you for calling or folding.
but do learn from this. if you have a strong value hand that you might have to fold if you reopen the betting, then you should maybe consider calling.
when you guys say ” you need 38%” what are you talking about? what does 38% represent ?
October 6, 2010
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myers3m said:
when you guys say ” you need 38%” what are you talking about? what does 38% represent ?
no, we have ~40% against a range of KK+, AK (i used pro poker tools, not stove. on a mac.)
when i said we need 38% i meant that to breakeven on a call here, our QQ needs to have at least 38% against whatever range we give villain.
you get that by doing this equation:
100*1/(pot/amt to call)+1
in this case:
pot: 39597 (1350 blinds+antes, his 32047, our 6200)
amt to call: 25287 (his 32047-6200 we already have in)
100*1/(39597/25287)+1
100/1.565+1
100/2.6
38.5%
October 6, 2010
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sorry, i got the equity and pot odds the wrong way round
I agree with above. 4bet got you in trouble here, and it will often in this spot. If you just call his 3bet it also disguises your big pair a bit. Then as we were talking in another forum, pot control will be important post flop. As benny stated, we can ck/call the flop and re-evaluate.
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