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November 6, 2018
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Played a hand with a friend of mine. He is good winning player (Cashed out in several, including couple WSOP tournament last year. ), better that me 🙁
Invests a lot of his time in studying poker (subscribed to upswing and purchased couple courser there).
We are playing regularly for almost 2 years now and have a lot of history. However somehow not too much 3bet pots between 2 of us went to showdown.
5 handed game, 1/2$, Pretty aggressive game. With couple donors around.
He was playing pretty loose that night, opening almost 90% of pots. I was pretty card dead and was involved in very few hands. Usually I am much more active and can be seen opening with pretty weak hands. Can call big bets (I believe one of my leaks is too much calling), can show big bluffs. We are deep (may be 200+BB effective).
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He opened from EP 7$ and I 3bet him with QQ from MP to 19$. Fold to him and he call.
Pretty standard I guess. I put him on middle pairs (66-JJ, may be QQ), suited connectors 9Ts-QKs, QKo, AQ, AKo. The last hand probably is not in his range, but during the hand I believed it is.
Flop ($41)
43J rainbow. He check, I bet 17$ he raise 47 I call
Good flop, do not see Villain has any connection to the flop. Set of J probably is the only hand beats me. Not too much second best hand actually as well, but I afraid of A or K appear on next streets and want to deny equity. (Again, that probably is wrong since he most likely will 4B AK. AA and KK he definitely 4B so those are not in his range at all). Thinking above I decided to make the bet.
Turn($135)
7 no flush drew.
He bet 74, I went all in.
Good turn for me so I bet. When he raised I was a little bit surprised, since 8 didn’t helped him. I discounted a little bit JJJ since he would let me hang myself with my over-pair (I probably played the hand in the obvious way. AK I probably check behind). So I decided to shove. He snap folded.
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We discussed this hand after the hand. He said it was bad shove from me since many time I will be against sets and if he was bluffing I had to give him opportunity to bluff one more time on river.
He had 67s.
If I agree with my mistake of shoving and letting him bluff again I am not sure how profitable is to call 3bets with such hand even against somebody who you can over play post flop.
Any thoughts?
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
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What was your reason for shoving? Why do you think it might be better than calling?
November 28, 2015
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You said the 7 didn’t help him. Why shove? What hands would you have in villains shoes that would c-bet the turn and call a shove?
November 6, 2018
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Well… The real reason was that I didn’t want to see A or K on the river. As I said (wrongly) I put AK on his range and didn’t want to face “hard” decision on the river. Also I was thinking that if he is bluffing he would not put additional money on the safe river, so checking doesn’t do any good for me. So I decided that I most probably am ahead now and want to denied his AK equity.
I also was thinking that with my bluffs I might play in the same way, but that probably even worse play…
November 28, 2015
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nkarapet said
Well… The real reason was that I didn’t want to see A or K on the river. As I said (wrongly) I put AK on his range and didn’t want to face “hard” decision on the river. Also I was thinking that if he is bluffing he would not put additional money on the safe river, so checking doesn’t do any good for me. So I decided that I most probably am ahead now and want to denied his AK equity.I also was thinking that with my bluffs I might play in the same way, but that probably even worse play…
The problem with your turn shove is that you’re forcing your opponent to play optimally. What that means is, he shouldn’t be calling your turn shove with any hands that you’re beating. By calling his turn bet, you allow yourself the opportunity for him to put more money in pot on the river gaining more value than you would if he folds to your turn shove. There’s plenty of river cards that come that he will bluff at. AK is just one hand. You need to range your opponent on multiple hands that would play a certain way.
November 6, 2018
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Well, AK is not one hand. Here is about half of Villains range. And that probably the only hand (may be in addition to 9Ts) he will play in this way. Totally 20 combinations (he might play flop with 9Ts only if has BDFD).
Saying that I still agree with all above saying.
One more thing that influenced my shove was history being bluffed of or loosing against somebody on A or K high board, which is not excuse…
By the way… what do you think about Villains calling 3B with 67s? Assuming he understand my thought process as above…
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