View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
3 betting OOP - why, how and when?
kardi31
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 56
Member Since:
March 29, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
May 12, 2017 - 9:15 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hi guys,

recently I’ve studied my hand history and stats in my PT4 and found out that I’m loosing a lot of chips playing out of position. 

While on small blind I’m -5BB/100, on big blind it’s alarming -20BB/100. I think I found a leak in incorrect 3betting ranges. 

 

So I’m 3betting 9-10% of hands playing OOP opposed to 8% playing in position. My ranges contains obviously premium hand TT+, AQ+. 

Versus single raise I 3bet lower suited connectors, probably all the aces (depending on opponent), lower pocket pairs. 

 

The problem starts when my opponent do not fold to my 3bet when I have a good A and miss the flop (AJs – AK). I’ve heard in one of Daniel Negreanu’s speech that it’s much better to just call those hands OOP and rather 3bet OOP as a bluff with hands like K5o. 

What are your thoughts on this?

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
May 12, 2017 - 10:00 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Main thing here is it sounds like you’re misinterpreting your win rate from the blinds. It’s going to be negative. You’re posting money blind! The baseline isn’t 0, as it would be from other positions, but rather -50 from the SB and -100 from the BB. That’s what your winrate would be if you folded every hand. So whatever strategy you are employing, it’s adding value. Basically, you’re cutting your losses when forced to bet blind from the worst positions at the table.

 

That said, your 3-betting strategy doesn’t sound great. If you’re 3-betting every Ace, that’s way too much. And you should be cognizant of stuff like original raiser’s position, stack sizes, etc. There’s really no easy answer to “here’s the strategy for 3-betting OOP”. I suggest you start with my Getting Off on the Right Foot series to help you orient your thinking about poker and Expected Value generally, and then get a sense of what others are doing from the BB by watching HH review videos, and then perhaps post some more specific questions here.

kardi31
Grinding Micros
Members
Forum Posts: 56
Member Since:
March 29, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
May 12, 2017 - 10:58 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Ok, maybe I was not exactly correct and clear on my first post. By 3betting all aces, I had in my mind that I sometimes 3bet smaller aces and most of the time I 3bet stronger aces (AJs+ – AK). 

More specific question is about your approach on playing stronger aces OOP? Would you rather call an open and play it postflop or 3bet it pre? Often I hear a reason `I don’t want to play this hand OOP so I will 3bet it`. Is it the right approach? 

theginger45

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 924
Member Since:
August 25, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
June 9, 2017 - 2:39 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Foucault said
Main thing here is it sounds like you’re misinterpreting your win rate from the blinds. It’s going to be negative. You’re posting money blind! The baseline isn’t 0, as it would be from other positions, but rather -50 from the SB and -100 from the BB. That’s what your winrate would be if you folded every hand. So whatever strategy you are employing, it’s adding value. Basically, you’re cutting your losses when forced to bet blind from the worst positions at the table.

 

That said, your 3-betting strategy doesn’t sound great. If you’re 3-betting every Ace, that’s way too much. And you should be cognizant of stuff like original raiser’s position, stack sizes, etc. There’s really no easy answer to “here’s the strategy for 3-betting OOP”. I suggest you start with my Getting Off on the Right Foot series to help you orient your thinking about poker and Expected Value generally, and then get a sense of what others are doing from the BB by watching HH review videos, and then perhaps post some more specific questions here.  

Hate to be picky, but a small correction if I can be so bold – if we’re including antes, it’s -60bb/100 from the SB and -110bb/100 from the BB, assuming 10% antes. It’s also -10bb/100 from every other position, which is something people underestimate a lot – breaking even playing a certain hand is better than folding if there are antes in play.

Foucault

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 2067
Member Since:
December 6, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
5
June 9, 2017 - 9:22 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

That hadn’t occurred to me, much appreciated!

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
25 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

JLPicard

Jackarmi

WSOPstar2B

LuckyEva

jankyjon

Elpokero

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 11986

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1