Home
(4 votes) 
March 8, 2014
Offline
Blinds: 100 ante 300/600
Hero Stack 20,000 (33bb)
Villain 24,000 (40bb)
The action folds to us and we open K
Q from the cutoff to 1300
The button 3bets us to 2800. This player has been very active and previously 3 bet and folded to my 4bet showing me 7
2. Overall he was playing solid and had a strong table presence. Our hand is too strong to fold to small 3bet. I did not want to 4bet fold this hand either so we decide to flat.
The flop comes T52
Total Pot: 7100
This is pretty dry flop and we are thinking that the villain is going to cbet here close to 100% of the time. We check and the villain bets 2800. Is it better to call or check raise here?
We decided to check raise to 8000 with the intention of getting it in. I believe our hand has to much equity for us to fold against his range. The range of hands I put him on is AA-22,AKs-A5s,KQs-KTs,QJs-Q8s, JT-J7s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo-A9o, KQo-KTo, QJo-QTo, JTo-J9o.
The villain ended up moving all in and we called.
Any feedback on this hand is much appreciated. Thanks
June 2, 2013
Offline
I think you are deep enough to call flop and check shove the turn; the range you put V on is really big, and I think he will raise turn as a bluff again the way you described him. I think this way you manage to get another bet from his bluffs.
May 22, 2016
Offline
Almo makes a good point of how to get extra value out of his bluffs – the way played is fine as I think you’ve got good equity against his range but you’ll likely end up flipping a lot against the hands that he decides to go with.
Thinking about how to make sure you’ve got a reasonably balanced range I think having hands like this in your turn check-raise arsenal makes you much harder to play against – otherwise you end up with a very nutted check-raise range on the turn.
Either way, the way you played it doesn’t seem like a mistake, but perhaps you leave some value on the table from his bluffs, especially as the way you range him should make these a significant part of his range.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
Offline
I’m skeptical that V is three-betting as wide as you say, but if he really is, then I’d just stick it in pre. I agree you shouldn’t four-bet-fold but I don’t see why that’s even on the table, I don’t think you’re deep enough to have a four-bet-fold range.
If you call flop, you only have about a pot-sized bet behind. I don’t see where people are getting the idea that you can check-shove the turn with fold equity. Just check-shove the flop. I suppose raising to 8K is fine if you think it will cause him to spazz, but I can’t see how you could ever raise to 8K and fold to a shove with any hand.
Basically it feels to me like you don’t really have a clear idea of the SPR either while playing the hand or while analyzing it now.
June 2, 2013
Offline
Hey Andrew!
I did messed up with the SPR.
What do you think about calling the cbet otf oop, and lead all in ott for blank cards? Maybe check calling or check shoving with hands that improve hero´s equity (J,9), or make the flush.
TPE Pro
December 6, 2012
Offline
What do YOU think about it? Why would that be better than check-raising flop?
June 2, 2013
Offline
Foucault said
What do YOU think about it? Why would that be better than check-raising flop?
Check raising the flop will make V to fold all his bluffs, if we call and hit we can check call or check shove turn, assuming V will bet turn off course; or lead all in on the turn if we don´t hit, is that realizing the equity?
Now I am thinking to check call any turn, using that range that OP give us for this V, I will make more detailed analisis tomorrow.
@OP, what is the percentage do you think this V is going to bet turn IP? He is barreling bluff with all his air?
March 8, 2014
Offline
almofadinhas said
Check raising the flop will make V to fold all his bluffs, if we call and hit we can check call or check shove turn, assuming V will bet turn off course; or lead all in on the turn if we don´t hit, is that realizing the equity?
Now I am thinking to check call any turn, using that range that OP give us for this V, I will make more detailed analisis tomorrow.
@OP, what is the percentage do you think this V is going to bet turn IP? He is barreling bluff with all his air?
I think the villain will bet the turn at a high frequency. I would say that this specific opponent would be betting the turn around 60 -70% of the time. I think he will be value betting all this over pairs, flush draws, top pair and bluffing with Ax, Kx, Qx etc…
March 8, 2014
Offline
Foucault said
I’m skeptical that V is three-betting as wide as you say, but if he really is, then I’d just stick it in pre. I agree you shouldn’t four-bet-fold but I don’t see why that’s even on the table, I don’t think you’re deep enough to have a four-bet-fold range.If you call flop, you only have about a pot-sized bet behind. I don’t see where people are getting the idea that you can check-shove the turn with fold equity. Just check-shove the flop. I suppose raising to 8K is fine if you think it will cause him to spazz, but I can’t see how you could ever raise to 8K and fold to a shove with any hand.
Basically it feels to me like you don’t really have a clear idea of the SPR either while playing the hand or while analyzing it now.
Thank you for your reply.
After thinking it over I think you’re right… my initial range for the villain is too wide. Typically when thinking about our villains 3bet range is it better to assign a wide or narrow range? What are some basics to keep in mind in regards to SPR?
June 2, 2013
Offline
Sorry, I completely forgot to make the analisis on this one.
I agree with Andrew, this should be a 4bet/call pre, or a check raise OTF, specially if this will make V to spazz with more bluffs.
KQs vs V´s range, hero have 48.04% equity discounting KhQh, pre flop
F Th 5h 2s, pot 7100, hero oop checks, V bets 100% of range (1)
Equity 54.82% against that range (1)
V bets 2800, pot 9900 offering 3.53:1, hero needs 22.07% equity
V after bet has 18400, hero 17200 before, after call 14400,
pot after call 12700, SPR 1.1
In case hero moves all in OTF V will have to pay 14400 on a 27100 pot for 1.8:1, needs 35.71%
(1) V´s range OTF: AA, JJ-22, KdKs, KdKc, KsKc, QdQs, QdQc, QsQc, AJs-A5s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AdKd, AsKs, AcKc, AdQd, AsQs, AcQc, KdQd, KsQs, KcQc, AJo-A9o, AdKs, AdKc, AsKd, AsKc, AcKd, AcKs, AdQs, AdQc, AsQd, AsQc, AcQd, AcQs, KdQs, KdQc, KsQd, KsQc, KcQd, KcQs, KdJs, KdJc, KsJd, KsJc, KcJd, KcJs, KdTs, KdTc, KsTd, KsTc, KcTd, KcTs, QdJs, QdJc, QsJd, QsJc, QcJd, QcJs, QdTs, QdTc, QsTd, QsTc, QcTd, QcTs
(without KhQh is 203 combos)
Assuming V is cbetting/calling 63 combos of 203 (2), for 31.03% total range, V having a 57.16% equity with this 63 combo hands (2).
When called there will be no Khxh, Qhxh, AhTh and Ah5h for flush draw.
Hero will win the 12700 pot 68.97% of the time, risking the remaining stack;
Hero have 42.84% when called on a 41500 pot;
And here I do not know how to calculate 
(2) V´s calling range OTF: AA, JJ-TT, 55, 22, KdKs, KdKc, KsKc, QdQs, QdQc, QsQc, AhJh, Ah9h, Th9h, Ah8h, 9h8h, Ah7h, 8h7h, Ah6h, 7h6h, AdTs, AdTc, AsTd, AsTc, AcTd, AcTs, KdTs, KdTc, KsTd, KsTc, KcTd, KcTs, QdTs, QdTc, QsTd, QsTc, QcTd, QcTs
OTT to lead all in there is 9 cards of 47 (3 Aces, 3 Jacks and 3 nines); 19.14% hero will lead all in
OTT to check call there is 9 cards to a flush, 6 cards to top pair, for 15 cards; 31.91% hero will check call
9+15=24, 23 remaining cards will be check/fold for hero, also dificult to play oop. 48.95% hero will check fold
*OP did not include AKo for V´s 3betting range, not sure if this was a mistake, but I include it, too late to take it out now 
@Andrew, I think turn will be difficult to play because we are oop, if we had position on v, you think will be more likely to call that 2800 bet OTF? (pot 7100 without the cbet). I think this would be difficult to play even IP, this V seems very agressive and capable of bluffing a lot OTT
TPE Pro
August 25, 2012
Offline
A lot of good analysis being done already, but one extra point – try not to categorize flops as ‘wet’ or ‘dry’. They’re simplistic definitions that don’t capture the essence of what we need to know about a flop.
On the one hand, you could call this flop ‘dry’ because it doesn’t hit anyone’s range that hard, but on the other hand, there’s a straight draw and a flush draw out there, so it’s clearly a different type of flop to a ‘dry’ K-9-3 rainbow. Sometimes we use ‘dry’ to mean ‘doesn’t hit people’s ranges’, and sometimes we use it to mean ‘no draws’ – it’s too vague.
Use ‘static’ and ‘dynamic’ instead. This flop is pretty dynamic – there’s a good chance that the equities of the two ranges will change on the turn, if a flush card or an overcard comes – but not in the extreme. It’s somewhere between dynamic and neutral in nature.
You can add another element to that if you want – ‘strong’ or ‘weak’. This refers to how well the board hits players’ ranges. This is more like a weak-neutral flop – there are some draws, but it doesn’t hit any one player’s range particularly hard. A 6-5-2 with a flush draw would be a weak-dynamic, and a T-9-6 with a flush draw might be a neutral-dynamic.
These two pairs of descriptors are usually much more useful. I got them from Will Tipton’s books on HUNL – high-level stuff, but worth a read.
July 12, 2013
Offline
How wide he’s 3b you may know better than us. But I would just take note of the range you constructed. I’m curious why J7s is in his range but not Q7s? Or Q9s is in his range and not K9s? J9o is in his range but not 109o. And why A2-A4s wouldn’t be in his range when some of these other way weak hands are… Anyways… Just something to think about when you do analysis.
Most Users Ever Online: 2780
Currently Online:
17 Guest(s)
Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
bennymacca: 2616
Foucault: 2067
folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133
praetor: 1033
theginger45: 924
P-aire 146: 832
Turbulence: 768
The Riceman: 731
duggs: 591
florianm1: 588
Newest Members:
alexalex2015
oneout2many
JLPicard
Jackarmi
WSOPstar2B
LuckyEva
Forum Stats:
Groups: 4
Forums: 24
Topics: 12705
Posts: 75003
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 1063
Members: 11988
Moderators: 2
Admins: 5
Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos
Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1
