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October 6, 2010
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Havent posted a hand in a while, but i though this one was pretty interesting.
TurkTurkelton23 is 33/22 after 18 hands, but I have him listed as a fish.
ArtemX5 is 7/0 after 14 hands
Preflop is obviously standard.
on the flop, i decided to just flat because i think it is a slightly weird board for villain to be donking out on, especially 3 way.
On the turn i am not really sure whether i should be betting. i think i have the best hand, but i think they could be folding weak queens if i lead out here, and if one of them jammed i think i would feel priced in to call with very little equity.
Once turk checks behind too, i think i definitely have the best hand, so I think raising the river looks weak and i will get looked up light.
is this FPS? should i just bet turn and river? bet call or bet fold?
Full Tilt Poker $5,000 Guarantee No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t25/t50 Blinds – 8 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
ShowDown Fox (MP2): t4740 94.80 BBs
Thriller1981 (CO): t3000 60 BBs
TurkTurkelton23 (BTN): t2900 58 BBs
ArtemX5 (SB): t3050 61 BBs
poker_nut78 (BB): t3450 69 BBs
Colovrat (UTG): t2860 57.20 BBs
bennymacca6 (UTG+1): t2705 54.10 BBs
Bilebarda (MP1): t4965 99.30 BBs
Pre Flop: (t75) bennymacca6 is UTG+1 with A
A
1 fold, bennymacca6 raises to t150, 3 folds, TurkTurkelton23 calls t150, ArtemX5 calls t125, 1 fold
Flop: (t500) 7 4 Q
(3 players)
ArtemX5 bets t250, bennymacca6 calls t250, TurkTurkelton23 calls t250
Turn: (t1250) 7 (3 players)
ArtemX5 checks, bennymacca6 checks, TurkTurkelton23 checks
River: (t1250) 9 (3 players)
ArtemX5 bets t450, bennymacca6 raises to t1000
May 30, 2012
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i want to b/f turn for 444. benny and i argued about this so ill hold my reasoning for a bit
May 30, 2012
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hah u guys arguing!
man i honestly think both of you have good lines
benny this is quite a different line than i've ever taken before tbh but i definately like your reasoning throughout the hand
but i also like duggs line and would probably b/f turn aswell, esp vs fish who are less capable of raising with air on such an innocent looking turn
i reckon we can get 3 streets of value from fish and checking turn misses one of those streets so yeah id probs bet turn
July 3, 2010
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I'm betting turn against these two bad players. Not many 7x hands in either range and I doubt they're smart enough to fold most Qx hands.
Or I'd raise the river bigger. It looks so FOS so I'd made it like 1400.
There's also merit to flop raising because Qx won't usually fold to a single raise there ever. Then, depending on turn, you can either check/big bet or do some other fun stuff.
October 6, 2010
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agree that i could prolly make it 1400 on river
July 3, 2010
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Don't like flop raising here? Multiway, Tx, Jx, and Qx have so many combos that I start building a pot with an overpair when one of these is top pair on the flop. 68% of the time it works 100% of the time.
A cute line you can take is raising flop, betting smaller on turn, and betting pot or overjamming river. Really messes with people's heads and when people get confused they click the button that says call because curiosity overrides common sense too often.
May 30, 2012
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i like that, raising flop is cool
June 11, 2012
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heads up i would like the raise on the flop here a lot. if his good his donk range should be only sets, 2pairs and some random bluffs with backdoor draws like JTs or so. guess all his mid pair and mid pair plus draws he would c/c
given artems stats its unlikely that he has any 2pair combos here. so there are only 9 set combos left
futher with turkelton behind a raise here looks super strong and may fold out a lot of Qx(about 24combos) and some mid pairs he might for what ever reason donk.
adittionally a raise will fold out turkelton allmost everytime he does not have a set.
without starting cardrunnersEV i assume a call is max +EV here compared to raise.
the turn is very unlikely to have hit artem if he checks now after firing on the flop. But, in my opinions it improves a lot of turkeltons flop calling hands as there are many 7x in his range with those stats.
If we bet here we will fold out most hands we beat and isolate ourselfs to hands that are beating us. like A7,76,87,75s,T7s. if we check now after artems check a player like turkelton will bet with all his air range and nuts range and check back all draws and showdown value hands like QT,QJ,KQ
this brings us to the river:
here i again like a very passive line to keep in turkelton with all the weak holdings.
we get the 450 extras chips from turkelton and are good in this spot far more often then we get the 550more from artem if we raise this here. additionally if turkelton trapped on the turn we are in a bad spot here as we can never be good.
hope you can follow my argumentation. looking to get some more thoughts
cheers
October 6, 2010
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I agree with your reasoning until the river, it is very similar to mine. On the river however given Artem is leading out, I think that is for value most of the time, given we are still 3 handed. And given he checked turn I think we can discount almost everything that beats us, and leave stuff like Qx and JJ etc
July 3, 2010
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He's been nitty over an albeit small sample size. I think some of these hands being put into his range are rather unreasonable.
October 6, 2010
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FkCoolers said:
He's been nitty over an albeit small sample size. I think some of these hands being put into his range are rather unreasonable.
which ones
July 3, 2010
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Eh I misread the above post – poster was saying keep turkleton in the hand which I completely disagree with.
I don't like the notion of keeping a pot multiway and taking a passive river line. Both of these guys could have nothing in which case you're letting a thin draw get there on you or you're getting nothing from being passive. We can't assume river overcalls.
June 11, 2012
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bennymacca said:
I agree with your reasoning until the river, it is very similar to mine. On the river however given Artem is leading out, I think that is for value most of the time, given we are still 3 handed. And given he checked turn I think we can discount almost everything that beats us, and leave stuff like Qx and JJ etc
well, i completely agree with that one. my thoughts are just. do we get more value from raising and getting the extra chips in from artem if turkelton folds or do we get more calls from turkelon if we just flat call.
think its close. do the math when i have more time
cheers
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