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76 Suited
3for3
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October 15, 2018 - 10:31 am
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I played a $200 with $100 Rebuys yesterday, and had an interesting hand.  Effective stacks are about 24000; at blinds of 150-300/25.  

UTG+1 (9 handed) opens to 750.  I flat the HiJack with 76ss.  Main Villain flats as well.  BB calls.  (3350)

Main villain seems to overplay his value hands, and went a little crazy with AJo, Squeezing big, then betting and jamming on a QTxx turn.  We are still in rebuy period.

Flop is JdTs5s, giving me a modest flush draw, and some back door straight draws.  Checked to me, my first decision was that I did not have enough fold equity to bet here, into 3 players.  Main Villain (button) bets 1500, folded back to me, and I call (6350).

Turn is an off suit 7.  I used to ‘go nuts’ (and sometimes still do!) with pair+flush draw.  Here, I just check called another bet of 3500 (13350).

River is an off suit Ace, effective stacks of 18K.   What are your plans for river…?  Thoughts on my play on other streets?

Foucault

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October 15, 2018 - 8:07 pm
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A bet may not have a lot of fold equity, but it will have more than a call!

rppoker
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October 16, 2018 - 3:40 am
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I realize that UTG+1 ultimately was not who you ended up battling with, but a player raising from that early of a position has a range that is waaaaaaaaay ahead of your 76ss. That should have been an easy fold preflop. Even if you were in the BB I think it is a fold to an early raise, but I suppose you could talk yourself into a call there since you have suited connectors and you see if you flop the world. I still think that would be a fold against such an early raise. I think if you are making calls this light on a consistent basis you are much more likely to a) find yourself short on chips earlier than necessary because you are bleeding chips, or b) get yourself in trouble when you flop a middling pair and run into a bigger pair. Yeah, you may get smacked by the deck once in a while and get paid, but much (MUCH) more often this hand just gets you in trouble.

Given that the were four people in the pot heading to the flop, the likelihood that your bluff catching pair of sevens is ahead after the river when there are three overcards seems pretty unlikely. I don’t know whether you won or lost this hand, but over time it seems like a pretty -EV play. As played, you picked up some showdown value on the turn but for your hand to be good villain has to have a hand without a 10, jack or ace. It seems to me you are only beating a bluff, and even if villain is bluffing he could very well be bluffing with the best hand against you. What to do on the river? Hope it goes check check and you pray that your showdown value is good. You might argue that the only way for you to win the pot is to bet the river, and while that this might very well be the only way you can win the hand, I think it is unlikely villain folds to a bet given the strength he showed in betting the flop and turn.

One other thought. After the flop and turn you kept chasing the flush, but even if you got there it is a small flush. Given that there were four people in the hand seeing the flop, there is a chance that if the flush eventually got there (it didn’t) it might be crushed by a better flush. In this case you are hoping villain has a better flush draw that like you didn’t get there and he never made a pair. The hands that villain could have that you beat seem really tiny compared to the hands he could have that beat you.

ScotFish
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October 16, 2018 - 5:51 am
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rppoker said
I realize that UTG+1 ultimately was not who you ended up battling with, but a player raising from that early of a position has a range that is waaaaaaaaay ahead of your 76ss. That should have been an easy fold preflop. Even if you were in the BB I think it is a fold to an early raise, but I suppose you could talk yourself into a call there since you have suited connectors and you see if you flop the world. I still think that would be a fold against such an early raise. I think if you are making calls this light on a consistent basis you are much more likely to a) find yourself short on chips earlier than necessary because you are bleeding chips, or b) get yourself in trouble when you flop a middling pair and run into a bigger pair. Yeah, you may get smacked by the deck once in a while and get paid, but much (MUCH) more often this hand just gets you in trouble.

Given that the were four people in the pot heading to the flop, the likelihood that your bluff catching pair of sevens is ahead after the river when there are three overcards seems pretty unlikely. I don’t know whether you won or lost this hand, but over time it seems like a pretty -EV play. As played, you picked up some showdown value on the turn but for your hand to be good villain has to have a hand without a 10, jack or ace. It seems to me you are only beating a bluff, and even if villain is bluffing he could very well be bluffing with the best hand against you. What to do on the river? Hope it goes check check and you pray that your showdown value is good. You might argue that the only way for you to win the pot is to bet the river, and while that this might very well be the only way you can win the hand, I think it is unlikely villain folds to a bet given the strength he showed in betting the flop and turn.

One other thought. After the flop and turn you kept chasing the flush, but even if you got there it is a small flush. Given that there were four people in the hand seeing the flop, there is a chance that if the flush eventually got there (it didn’t) it might be crushed by a better flush. In this case you are hoping villain has a better flush draw that like you didn’t get there and he never made a pair. The hands that villain could have that you beat seem really tiny compared to the hands he could have that beat you.  

Just wanted to disagree with a couple of things you mention – First of all if you have 76s in the BB, someone has raised 2.5x (even in Ep) this is a profitable call, even if no one else has come along as well. 76s plays well post, as it should be relatively easy to navigate and your chances of being hit with flush over flush are extremely low. Most importantly of all the pot odds you’re getting are far too good to turn down, as to be profitable you only need to win roughly at third of the time. Unless EP raisers are inredibly tight, and only raising premium pocket pairs you should reach this equity without too much difficulty, so it doesn’t matter if you do lose this hand more often than you win. 

Saying all this, calling from the HiJack is a bit of a different propostion, and I think you’d need a read that re-assures you that you can outplay UTG+1 comfortably before I would recommend this call. 

I also don’t disagree with your post-flop analysis hugely, although as Andrew says you always have more fold equity when betting than calling! A lot of the benefit of having a flush draw is in the fold equity it allows you to create against others, as much as what you make when you hit the flush itself. 

3for3
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October 16, 2018 - 11:03 am
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First the call preflop.  I know the raiser quite well, and she is very predictable.  Will reliably bet hands that can beat me if I flopped a pair, and check otherwise.  Will also pay off a fair bit if I hit my straight, and possibly flush as well.  We were still fairly deep, and flatting good SC is a good part of my range to balance other hands here, like medium pairs.  Of course they are ‘ahead’ of me.  But, there is going to be some dead money in the pot, and I can flop well enough with this hand to call.  I won’t get into too much trouble when I flop one pair against this opponent.

I didn’t mention it, but if I had turned open ended 4/8 I was intending to check raise turn.  When I picked up showdown value, I thought it was the wrong idea to turn this into a bluff.

On the river, yes it is unlikely my pair of 7s are good.  That is why I posted this hand, wondering whether I should turn them into a bluff.  Although I would have bet KQ on this flop, Villain may not know that, and I also may have rivered an Ace with some of my flush draws.  That being said, I do have a tiny bit of showdown value against Villain’s Q9 and missed spades.  

For the results oriented, I did check the river, and Villain checked back with QT.

rppoker
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October 16, 2018 - 1:53 pm
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ScotFish said

Just wanted to disagree with a couple of things you mention – First of all if you have 76s in the BB, someone has raised 2.5x (even in Ep) this is a profitable call, even if no one else has come along as well. 76s plays well post, as it should be relatively easy to navigate and your chances of being hit with flush over flush are extremely low. Most importantly of all the pot odds you’re getting are far too good to turn down, as to be profitable you only need to win roughly at third of the time. Unless EP raisers are inredibly tight, and only raising premium pocket pairs you should reach this equity without too much difficulty, so it doesn’t matter if you do lose this hand more often than you win. 

Saying all this, calling from the HiJack is a bit of a different propostion, and I think you’d need a read that re-assures you that you can outplay UTG+1 comfortably before I would recommend this call. 

I also don’t disagree with your post-flop analysis hugely, although as Andrew says you always have more fold equity when betting than calling! A lot of the benefit of having a flush draw is in the fold equity it allows you to create against others, as much as what you make when you hit the flush itself.   

I would not have a problem with you calling had you been in the BB. You know you are behind, but much like if you had a small pair preflop and are set mining you are getting a good price to stack villain’s big hand if the flop hits you hard. As you say, from the big blind this will be easy to play postflop since you have a high possibility of getting paid big by villain if you make a straight or flush and if you completely whiff on the flop you can just get away from the hand.

3for3
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October 16, 2018 - 2:05 pm
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I’d rather play hands like 76s in position.  Sets are easier to get value from OOP, but SC tend to need the position element as well.  I’d still defend 76s either way when this deep, but if given the choice of SC in position, and pocket pair out of position, or vice versa, I want the SC in position.

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