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May 30, 2012
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mid stages of big 16, no real reads on either players, not super loose not super agg, think pre and flop are pretty std,
what should my sizing and line be on turn?
PokerStars - $15+$1.50|200/400 Ante 50 NL - Holdem - 8 players Hand converted by PokerTracker 3: http://www.pokertracker.com SB: 3,362.00 BB: 14,865.00 Hero (UTG): 21,027.00 UTG+1: 3,510.00 MP: 10,038.00 MP+1: 3,354.00 CO: 7,110.00 BTN: 19,736.00 SB posts ante 50.00, BB posts ante 50.00, Hero posts ante 50.00,
UTG+1 posts ante 50.00, MP posts ante 50.00, MP+1 posts ante 50.00,
CO posts ante 50.00, BTN posts ante 50.00, SB posts SB 200.00, BB posts BB 400.00 Pre Flop: (1000.00) Hero has As Ac Hero raises to 800.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls 800.00, fold, BB calls 400.00 Flop: (3000.00, 3 players) Jd 5s 7c BB checks, Hero bets 1,555.00, BTN calls 1,555.00, BB calls 1,555.00 Turn: (7665.00, 3 players) 8s BB checks, Hero bets 5,111.00, BTN calls 5,111.00, BB raises to 12,460.00 and is all-in, Hero ?????
November 30, 2012
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When you bet that size you are committed to call BB shove i think. I think a bet of 3,8 does the same job and lets us get away from our hand when its obvious that we're beat. I think your pretty good vs BTNs range, and i think you are kinda behind BB range (not his entire range ofcourse, but as a whole), but I think due to the huge pot this is a profitable reshove as played. Your turn sizing really doesnt let you get away from it. But again, this is vs unknowns, vs some villians this might be an easy fold.
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May 30, 2012
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so would you b/f smaller on turn?
November 30, 2012
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Depends on if i think he is a huge donk or not.
I think if i bet 3,8, get a flat and he shove I would be more inclined to believe he is protecting a better made hand than shoving worse/combodraw/just going with his Jx.
I think a set is likely to play this way and I do think he calls with 9Ts + backdoor and 64s. So yeah, if i bet 3,8 ish and get a call and a shove i think ill get away from it. I’m not loving my hand vs his range here.
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January 24, 2013
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agree with Noq
Flat calling the UTG peflop aggressor spells SUPER STRONG. Definately set mining and WHAM, woke up on the turn.
When things like this occur i just look at AA and see 33 or 44….. thats a snap fold right?
Remember you only hit a set what 1 in 10.5 .. its i think a 9.5% chance to hit…..
January 22, 2013
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bet bigger on the flop its mutliway there ranges are likely inelastic so if they are calling they will call regardless. On the turn, given the effective stacks im not bet folding but we need to think about peoples ranges some
both this hand and the other you posted illustrate why we need to be aware of the PSR when we do things so we try and avoid shitty spots
November 30, 2012
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i see no godly reason to bet bigger on this flop. Are you saying that you are betting bigger with AK? Or that you are betting this size with ak and bigger with AA? Or betting entire range bigger on this flop? If anything i don't mind a smaller flop bet.
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January 22, 2013
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i see no godly reason to bet bigger on this flop. Are you saying that you are betting bigger with AK? Or that you are betting this size with ak and bigger with AA? Or betting entire range bigger on this flop? If anything i don’t mind a smaller flop bet.
Well what is there range for calling or bet here? Likely Jx type hands so do they care much what sizing we bet?,… Nope. Any draws are weak anyways and it is unlikely they will peel with this stack regardless. I see no need to balance my cbet sizing against weak players so to counter your argument why wouldn’t we bet flop bigger?
November 30, 2012
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there hasnt been any talk about this being a weak player?
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January 22, 2013
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Nqon said:
there hasnt been any talk about this being a weak player?
we can't assume this in a $15 freezeout 😉 until someone proves otherwise,….
May 30, 2012
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rumsey182 said:
bet bigger on the flop its mutliway there ranges are likely inelastic so if they are calling they will call regardless. On the turn, given the effective stacks im not bet folding but we need to think about peoples ranges some
both this hand and the other you posted illustrate why we need to be aware of the PSR when we do things so we try and avoid shitty spots
there is no way that calling ranges are inelastic on this texture multiway.
if you arent bet/folding and want to avoid a shitty spot what are you doing?
what are there ranges
January 22, 2013
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some duggs said:
rumsey182 said:
bet bigger on the flop its mutliway there ranges are likely inelastic so if they are calling they will call regardless. On the turn, given the effective stacks im not bet folding but we need to think about peoples ranges some
both this hand and the other you posted illustrate why we need to be aware of the PSR when we do things so we try and avoid shitty spots
there is no way that calling ranges are inelastic on this texture multiway.
if you arent bet/folding and want to avoid a shitty spot what are you doing?
what are there ranges
wait so you think people on a J57r board care if you are betting 2/3 the pot instead of half pot? they will magically look at J10off and say wow i need to fold this is a sizing tell?,… maybe some but people are generally so bad we can easily get away with this.
JX, some 7X hands, random high cards, random ST8 draws
May 30, 2012
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if it were truely inelastic we could just shove the flop, i think people call far more if i bet 1/4 pot compared to 3/4 pot yes
January 22, 2013
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duggs said:
if it were truely inelastic we could just shove the flop, i think people call far more if i bet 1/4 pot compared to 3/4 pot yes
yes if you want to make an extreme case, perfect inelasticity would be this. But if we have the top of our range, and villain doesn't care as long as the bet isn't unreasonably big, why not bet bigger with the higher parts of our range to make more when they call, aka higher EV,……
your really missing the point, they may call more if we bet 1/4 pot but we let them realize their equity so much cheaper
June 7, 2012
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Here is the issue with mini raising, and exactly why I never ever ever ever ever do it. You will get the BB callin with almost anything to see a flop, and this brd is all over his range. He could have a set, though unlikely, I would put him on 2 pair or a str8, MAYBE top pair, but not top top, we would have heard from him pre. If you mini raise and get called from the BB and do not improve, I would say it is better to excercise some pot control.
I would make it 2.2xish pre. 925-995 somewhere in there. I don't hate the flop bet, but that would be the top of the mark I would say, somewhere between 1200-1550 is fine IMO. Turn bet……..I think it should be smaller, much smaller, like 3k-4k…or if you know you are never folding to either shove, JAM.
January 22, 2013
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OkieNGa said:
Here is the issue with mini raising, and exactly why I never ever ever ever ever do it. You will get the BB callin with almost anything to see a flop, and this brd is all over his range. He could have a set, though unlikely, I would put him on 2 pair or a str8, MAYBE top pair, but not top top, we would have heard from him pre. If you mini raise and get called from the BB and do not improve, I would say it is better to excercise some pot control.
I would make it 2.2xish pre. 925-995 somewhere in there. I don't hate the flop bet, but that would be the top of the mark I would say, somewhere between 1200-1550 is fine IMO. Turn bet……..I think it should be smaller, much smaller, like 3k-4k…or if you know you are never folding to either shove, JAM.
getting people to peel OOP when we have a much stronger range is absolutely fine
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