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Hi guys,
This is fairly early in this tournament. Villain is multi tabling and takes a very strange line in this hand. Have no past history with this guy, interested to hear your thoughts on this hand and if i could have played it differently… Blocker bet on the riv?
Poker Stars $20+$2 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t30/t60 Blinds – 9 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
Gas Gas 80 (BB): t3435 57.25 BBs
Hero (UTG): t7730 128.83 BBs
valuetown33 (UTG+1): t3320 55.33 BBs
Csofter (UTG+2): t5015 83.58 BBs
chiefster09 (MP1): t2140 35.67 BBs
danipesis (MP2): t4395 73.25 BBs
Gracie_May12 (CO): t2820 47 BBs
Belabacsi (BTN): t4280 71.33 BBs
rckyu (SB): t3125 52.08 BBs
Pre Flop: (t90) Hero is UTG with K
Q
Hero raises to t120, 3 folds, danipesis calls t120, 4 folds
Flop: (t330) 9 K 9 (2 players)
Hero bets t155, danipesis raises to t480, Hero calls t325
Turn: (t1290) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, danipesis checks
River: (t1290) 3
(2 players)
Hero checks, danipesis bets t3795 all in, Hero….. ?
Once this guy raised I was thinking he perceives my less than half pot bet as weak but there is no sense raising as only get better hands to go over the top again and worse to fold, plus hero is OOP.
Turn comes a blank and surprisingly check check. Now i put him on a huge draw like J T spades. The massive over bet all in really and truly confused me and did not know what to do. Interestingly I OPR'd him after and he was up 52 k at 30 d abi on stars.
Thoughts….?
I know this is not what you wanna here because you wanna know how to play the hand better, the truth is you should not have played the hand at all. Its super early blinds and raising KQo UTG is just not profitable.
+1 on just fold pre, no need to be opening this hand esp UTG.
As played I think I call as it doesn't look like a 9 if he isn't betting the river, if he has checked for deception and shoved the river then it's a weird line to take and just wp and grind you're 50BB stack back up.
I dont buy V's line here. When you call his reraise on the flop, he has to give you credit for top pair or AA, in which case surely he should be trying to build the pot with a smallish bet on the turn.
I would put him on a missed spade draw. If he did have a 9 I dont think he did a great job getting max value out of it.
TPE Pro
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July 20, 2010
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villain missed spades imo, but any how i think opening this hand here is fine and i do always, if you open AJ here then no reason not to open KQ, nitty fold imo if you know where your fold button is and arnt afraid of post flop play then this is a playable hand
The way the hand plays out I call on river. I think it's missed spades so often. If he played a 9 like this more credit to him cause its such a weird line. I think opening this hand utg is also perfectly fine.
yeh i dont understand the 1st 2 posts about not opening this hand up 100 + bbs deep. Im sure bigdog and goleafs go open here.
Yeh I really thought this guy had missed flush and tanked rele hard for ages after folding. Line does not make sense at all and perhaps I could call. Absurd play by him lol
Cougars4444 said:
The way the hand plays out I call on river. I think it's missed spades so often. If he played a 9 like this more credit to him cause its such a weird line. I think opening this hand utg is also perfectly fine.
You think opening KQo UTG this early in a tournament is necessary? I am definitely opening it in later stages but this early it just puts you playing oop in mediocre spots. Depends on the player I guess but doesnt do much for us imo. Opening and playing post flop oop with KQo and no chips in the middle worth playing for seems silly.
As they were saying earlier K/Qo isnt a hand I'm opening that early, that deep, and in that position. As played, this line is very strange, I feel if he really had 9/X he would of been betting the turn to protect his hand unless he has k/9 or 9/9 which you cant put him on. A/K or K/K I feel raises preflop. The river almost feels like he has air or a missed draw or something I'd almost be inclined to call here haha I dunno it's just so ridiculous of a river bet the 600 chips might not be worth finding out since your hand is pretty marginal for that amount.
hawkeyeK9 said:
I know this is not what you wanna here because you wanna know how to play the hand better, the truth is you should not have played the hand at all. Its super early blinds and raising KQo UTG is just not profitable.
I'm with you hawkeye, its much easier to get set mined, out kicked, out flopped, and out drawn when everyone is this deep. Its harder to focalize peoples ranges this deep, Harder to push people out of a hand this deep, harder to play post flop in general this deep. P.S. I've followed a good bit of bigdog's videos and he folds I believe IMO.
I can only speak for myself but i dont play AJo in this spot UTG either. Im betting the river as played.
Big difference between opening w AJ and KQ, esp suited, fr ep pre-antes. You're almost never gonna win a big pot w AJ if an A flops and your opp doesn't have one. Plus alot more people are flatting w AQ pre-antes today than in the past, putting u in danger of being dominated.
KQ, on the other hand, is an excellent hand to open pre-antes for value bec so many bad players early in mtts will be flatting w KJ, KT, QJ, QT, even K9 and Q9. Even if the pot becomes multi-way it's not the worst thing in the world bec you're getting gd implied odds if u flop good – more straight combos w KQ than AJ. Plus most randoms will 3 bet w AK, letting u know when your dominated making it an easy fold to a 3b.
Folding KQ fr utg pre-antes is fine too, but opening it is not a mistake.
October 6, 2010
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mmfitter said:
Big difference between opening w AJ and KQ, esp suited, fr ep pre-antes. You're almost never gonna win a big pot w AJ if an A flops and your opp doesn't have one. Plus alot more people are flatting w AQ pre-antes today than in the past, putting u in danger of being dominated.
KQ, on the other hand, is an excellent hand to open pre-antes for value bec so many bad players early in mtts will be flatting w KJ, KT, QJ, QT, even K9 and Q9. Even if the pot becomes multi-way it's not the worst thing in the world bec you're getting gd implied odds if u flop good – more straight combos w KQ than AJ. Plus most randoms will 3 bet w AK, letting u know when your dominated making it an easy fold to a 3b.
Folding KQ fr utg pre-antes is fine too, but opening it is not a mistake.
Good input guys. I think it depends on the type of player. I am far from a nit and am very comfortable with post-flop play and still lay this down at this beginning blind level.
October 6, 2010
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TPE Pro
TPE Management
July 20, 2010
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palying hands like this early develops an image for you so in level 2 or 3 you can get your monsters paid, its not about the hand value for me its about creating image, way way to tight if your not opening KQ in a nlhe tourney imo, what are you going to do wait until you have a monster to play your first pot? guess what? you have a monster, its not about waiting for spots its about creating them.
such an unknowingly valuable post imo
this typifies that there is never a perfect spot in nlhe
the pro's play this hand profitably and create an image for profiting even more in the future
the others (which tbh includes me) fold this hand pre in order to avoid tough situations like the one that has evolved
given the comments above, there is obv no perfect way to play this hand. only for all of us to decide given the limit, opponents, and our own image, what the best line of play is.. and more importantly what this will mean for us and our image and profit further along in the game
the most obvious and valuable thing to stay here is that the pro's are opening this hand pre b/c they are a lot more comfortable playing it post flop than most people are… something we should all aspire to
fwiw i'd hero call the river also
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