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Guess which "Brokos box" my and villain's hand goes in
lafauriea
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December 11, 2013 - 6:50 am
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hello there, 

I don't know if you want to start your thread on hand reading in this post or launch another, anyway, I'm very interesting to participate and I join my first hand. I hidden my cards 🙂

what are your thought process with a help of Andrew method?

 

Poker Stars €9+€1 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t1500/t3000 Blinds + t375 – 9 players –
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter

CO: BB = 11.5, t34468
BTN: BB = 55.4, t166342
SB: BB = 35.4, t106200
BB: BB = 17.0, t50860
Hero (UTG): BB = 51.0, t153105
UTG+1: BB = 29.8, t89505
UTG+2: BB = 51.7, t155191
MP1: BB = 43.8, t131296
MP2: BB = 32.3, t97024

Pre Flop: (t7875) Hero is UTG with XX
Hero raises to t6750, 5 folds, BTN calls t6750, SB calls t5250, 1 fold

Flop: (t26625) 8 of clubs 8 of spades 2 of spades (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t14643, BTN calls t14643, SB folds

Turn: (t55911) 7 of diamonds (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

River: (t55911) Q of spades (2 players)
Hero bets t19568, BTN raises to t42000, Hero folds

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Carlos
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December 11, 2013 - 3:10 pm
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Preflop: Hero is probably not too light UTG so I'll start with something like pairs, suited aces, suited broadways, KQo, AQo+

 

Flop: I say villain's range is similar but capped. If he's fit or fold, he folding the majority to the c-bet. So I say he calls with weak clubs, pairs, A2s, and maybe AQo+ with a club. Probably raises with strong pairs, strong clubs, or trips+.

 

Turn: Doesn't change much and they both check. I say more times than not, this indicates air or a marginal hand for hero and specifically a marginal hand for villain. I got hero on an airball, a naked AQ+, or a pair of 7s or less. Villian on the same range minus the airball.

 

River: Hero bets the river weakly so I put him on the airball or a weak marginal hand he's turning into a bluff like AK or apair of 7s or less. Villain is probably not turning a pair into a bluff with his raise. Probably didnt slowplay a monster twice and probably isnt bluff raising the river at all (although he could be since villain is repping very little). I would have thought he would have raised strong clubs on the flop or bet weak ones on the turn, but he could have taken a free card. My guess is villian has either a weak flush or AQ. Only bluff I could possibly give him is AK.

WackyJuan
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December 11, 2013 - 6:18 pm
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Here's how I see it (I hope the formatting comes out okay so it's legible what's monster/marginal/draw-air hands):

                       Monsters                                           Marginal                                                  Draws/Air                     

Villain:   Flop:   Trips+ (22 or 88, 78/89)                     99, 77-33 (TT+ unlikely, no 3bet pre)        fd + overs

Turn:   Trips+ (unlikely due to no bet to          99, 66-33                                                fd + overs

build the pot or charge the fd)

River:   FLUSH (very likely due to raise size)     TP (unlikely, would've just called)           overs unlikely due to raise

 

Hero:     Flop:    fh (22 unlikely), quads (88 unlikely)     AA-99, 77-66                                          fd + overs

trips (unlikely, only 6 combos of A8s,

78s, 89s

Turn:    fh (77,22,78 unlikely, would've bet      AA-99, 66                                               fd + overs

for value at least 1/3 pot),

trips+ (still unlikely)

River:   nothing (folded to raise)                      AA-99, 66                                               overs

 

I definitely put Villain on a fd that hit the river, and the Hero on marginal to air the whole way.

It's possible that if the Villain is thinking well, the Hero's line of 1/2pot cbet, ck t, 1/3 r bet is pretty weak, he could be bluffing IP here with anything.  A flop float, t ck behind, r 2.5x raise on the completed flush board probably has a good chance of succeeding, especially since Hero is weighted towards marginal and draws/air.

I think a turn cbet of 1/2pot would've been enough to discourage the villain's fd from continuing, and he would've bagged an 18.6bb pot.  Giving up the turn spelled doooooom.

Thanks for the post,

Wacky

icantmtt
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December 11, 2013 - 6:32 pm
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Preflop: given the stack sizes at the table I don’t think hero can be too light here (2 players with shove stacks) . Any pair QJs+. Hard to discount premiums from villains range as he could be inducing bb squeeze/utg spaz. Similar range to hero with these stacks.

Flop: not reading too much into Chet. Hero probably thinks flop missed villain most of the time. Hero most likely has air/marginals in his range. Villain range still really wide just calls flop so could have monsters full houses/trips. Marginals like mid and overpairs. I think we can discount air from his range even if he has AKspades he has to be afraid of paired board and shouldn’t want to continue. I think this kind of hand should raise here to find out where they are at.

Turn: it looks like hero missed here and is giving up. It could be a slow played monster but we know he folds. We can discount all 8’s from his range as this kind of hand would bet to build the pot and protect against spades. I think we can also discount overpairs as these would keep barreling for same reason. At this point I’m putting hero on air and maybe marginal mid pairs. Monsters are still in villains range except for 8s these would bet for same reason. Marginals are defo in range taking a free card trying to get to showdown. Mid pairs. I think we can discount Ax spade type hands as these would likely stab at the pot with outs on this street.

River: hero looks weak here I think marginal hands check with showdown value. I think we can discount marginal hands from villains range at this point. Mid pairs would check behind/call. Even spades would just call given paired board. I still think we here from these on turn though.

Final analysis. Hero = air . Villain = monster

WizardZur
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December 12, 2013 - 9:50 am
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Hero's line of: raise, cbet, check turn, bet river is an extremely common line that is used when hero has nothing.  It is so common in fact that good Villian will sometimes float flop with air.  Hero could have any form of air, I don't think you can put him on a specific hand, but he probably has absolutely nothing.  Villian likely either has a flush draw or is representing one.  I can also see him having a boat and is hoping that hero got there on the river with a flush and is raising for pure value.  It's also possible that Villian is a very good player and is using position and Hero's perceived weakness to bluff Hero off a hand.  In other words, Villian either has a monster or has done a good job representing one.     

lafauriea
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December 14, 2013 - 1:28 am
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Nice guys!

I had 66 on this hand

Vilain shows me 87o

 

I should have give up on the river

derSchwartz
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December 14, 2013 - 2:57 pm
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What is the Andrew method?

lafauriea
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December 14, 2013 - 3:33 pm
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My question at the end is how do you manage this pocket pair? open raise and give up if you don't have a set? open fold it ?

my thinking when review it it was to make 2 barrels and give up? what should have been your line since I know that guy was very passive? 

icantmtt
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December 14, 2013 - 5:44 pm
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I think opening and c betting is fine. Checking turn is fine. Alarm bells should be ringing when villain checks turn. Since we’ve discounted air frm range and we should hear from Ax spades and hands like 88 99 TT on the turn. Check river

@ der Schwartz Andrew brokus hand reading video series

piefarmer
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December 15, 2013 - 11:10 am
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Here's how I handle the 66 in this spot.

If I think the smaller stacks behind are likely to shove, I may fold preflop and not play this hand. Otherwise, the open is fine. 

Once the flop comes, it hits villain's range better than hero's. This means hero's cbets are less likely to simply take down the pot. I would consider checking this flop with 66 unless I had the 6 of spades.

As played, I think checking the turn is correct. 

On the river, before hero bets, villain has monsters and showdown hands.  When he raises, he has monsters. If he had a hand he needed to bluff, he would have bet the turn.

 

For hero, the river bluff seems unlikely to succeed. The Brokos method would suggest to me that villain had monsters or showdown before hero's river bet. But even villain's showdown hands are likely ahead of hero (trips, higher two pair). In other words, whenever hero is ahead on the river, he cannot get value from worse and he only gets called (or raised) by better.

 

For the full method, go to the premium videos, search for Brokos, and watch his first series, which is on hand reading. It alone is worth the price of the TPE membership and it will help you more than my bastardized explanation.

 

Interesting hand.

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Carlos
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December 15, 2013 - 11:16 pm
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With 50bb I limp this hand UTG. My primary objective is to flop a set vs AA. If I raise it and AA reraises me, my odds of doing that is much worse.

 

I dont lose much value by doing this because the hand doesnt have top pair value  and your're never going to get position raising it from here. So the most likely result is being OOP, in a bloated pot, with a hand that does not flop well and isnt  worth getting it in with on 88.25% of boards.

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