View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
Live tournament, city of dreams manila, 5000 PHP (100 USD) warm up day2/final day. 11 players remain from 400 player field.
ctrl-alt-destruction
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 16
Member Since:
July 17, 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
October 5, 2017 - 1:15 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

I am utg with 5 or 6 players. i have about 15bbs, blinds are 8k/16k i open to 32k. Now i know the person in the big blind is very likely going to call, he seems to play very well defending and floating pots then stabbing  previously from the big stack and others and had chipped up at the table and he is now the chip leader at the table and is shining with confidence even when he wasnt chip leader.

 

I did consider opening jamming but i think it looks to strong and out of character for me who has been more on the tight side the last few orbits.  even when i min raise i feel it looks very strong since ive only been opening up in later/middle position and when the big blind flats, it looks like what it is, a wide range trying to bust a tight range. Should i open bigger than min raise with my 15bb stack knowing the big blind is going to flat wide?. 

 

The flop is J64 with two clubs. Now that im getting short my mindset has changed from small ball now looking to get it in and double. Usually i would like to throw in a check somewhere and possibly bet a little smaller. but now i want to try to get all my money in with my top pair top kicker with 15bb is that the correct thinking? i wasnt sure about icm and my position in the tournment, until the pay jumps where getting more significant, 9th is 32k (php) and first is about (320k) so i was near the bigger pay jumps but not in them.

 

So i specifically sized my bet sizing a little bit larger to try and get it in on the turn, i bet 44k usually in this tournment i would have bet 32k. Is that  ok? he calls and the turn is an 8. And i shove a little over pot. Not wanting to let any clubs or draws, get there and try to get called by a weaker jack. and take down a big pot compared to my stack. If i was deeper i wouldnt care about taking down the pot right now but i need to make a move soon so is this correct thinking?

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
October 6, 2017 - 12:28 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

Congrats on the deep run!

UTG 5 or 6 handed I think AJ is strong enough to play for 15bb stacks preflop, regardless of FT bubble. So the question becomes how to put our money in. Do we want to increase our variance by encouraging other players to enter the pot with weaker holdings, or shove a reasonably strong hand with great blockers to maximize our fold equity?

My personal preference is a shove considering the ICM, although I’m more likely to make a small raise (planning to call any shoves) earlier in the tournament. You don’t mention ante size but assuming it is 2k, you’re adding ~15% to your stack with no risk if everyone folds. I think keeping re-shove ranges wider and getting BB to put in extra chips with marginal hands is the better option when pay-jumps are not so imminent but, for me, maximizing fold equity takes priority here.

When raising small, I have recently adopted bigger preflop raises into my game at all stack sizes, and rarely minraise even at 15bb. This is a personal preference, and I’m not sure how much strategic importance it has, but I find 2.25bb has enough impact on BB calling ranges to warrant committing an extra 1.6% of my stack.

On this flop, I think our hand is worth wagering all of our chips with a stack much deeper than 15bb, so I think our only decision is how best to get our remaining 13bb in the middle. BB range will have a lot of Jx, and villain should be willing to go with some weaker pairs. Pot size on flop is ~5bb, with ~13bb effective stacks. I’m a bit reticent to give bet-sizing advice (it seems I know less and less as I spend more time studying it), but I think I would size larger than 44k so that I can shove turn without over-betting. If you bet 60k on the flop villain may still expect to have some fold equity (it is <1/3 of your stack), so I expect shoves from clubs or 6x roughly as often as when you bet 44k. If villain calls, the pot is 200k on the turn, with 140k behind, which incentivizes villain to call a shove with a slightly wider range (but should still force folds from most draws). This line also wins us more chips when villain folds turn.

I think you are correct that you want to win the pot as often as possible due to your stack size. As you say, it is much more important to be focused on extracting value with a deeper stack, but on 15bb any pot we win is a nice boost, and we want to avoid giving worse hands a good price to suck out on us.

theginger45

TPE Pro
Members
Forum Posts: 924
Member Since:
August 25, 2012
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
October 12, 2017 - 12:40 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

My preference is to open-jam for 15bb in a spot like this, since AJ is most likely right on the cusp between a raise-call and a raise-fold, which makes it preferable to shift into a shoving range. Your raising range should be somewhat more polarized between easy raise-calls and easy raise-folds. If you do raise, you can’t go any bigger than 2.2x or so, just simply because your stack is so short, and you lose a degree of flexibility if you go bigger.

On the flop and turn, your main priority should be ensuring that you can get all-in as often as possible here. I think your flop and turn bet sizing is fine, with stacks this short it really doesn’t matter much that your turn shove is a slight overbet since the board is pretty dynamic anyway and there are tons of weaker hands villain should be calling off with. I’m not a huge fan of betting bigger on flop, simply because you make it harder for villain to check-jam with a wide range. I think 60k would be much too big.

It’s really, really tough to make a mistake with TPTK and 13bb effective stacks. You did the right thing getting it in.

DuckinDaDeck
Hunting Max EV
Sunday Major
Members
Forum Posts: 284
Member Since:
February 8, 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
4
October 19, 2017 - 1:16 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

theginger45 said

On the flop and turn, your main priority should be ensuring that you can get all-in as often as possible here. I think your flop and turn bet sizing is fine, with stacks this short it really doesn’t matter much that your turn shove is a slight overbet since the board is pretty dynamic anyway and there are tons of weaker hands villain should be calling off with. I’m not a huge fan of betting bigger on flop, simply because you make it harder for villain to check-jam with a wide range. I think 60k would be much too big.

I agree with all of this (and the rest of ginger45’s post). In a rough simulation, 60k vs 40k actually affects Crev continue ranges (folds 7% more and check-raises 1% more), so probably affects villain’s ranges as well. Overbet on turn might even make our range look more draw-heavy with flush and straight draws possible.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
25 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

oneout2many

JLPicard

Jackarmi

WSOPstar2B

LuckyEva

jankyjon

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 11987

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1