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Hey guys,
Have a really interesting spot here which I would like to find out what others would do in this situation with regards to either a shove pre or a raise call. It turned out I actually raise folded because of the action behind.
Structure is a turbo. 30 left.
Poker Stars $15.00+$1.50 No Limit Hold'em Tournament – t2500/t5000 Blinds + t500 – 6 players
TournamentPokerEdge.com Hand History Converter
777Molotok (MP): BB = 19.4, t97117
PK1589 (CO): BB = 14.6, t73141
Hero (BTN): BB = 23.0, t114923
EriBobo (SB): BB = 17.7, t88355 20/14 14.3 3bet over 20 Hands
scruds (BB): BB = 14.2, t71015 18/13 4.3 3bet over 60 Hands
serb24 (UTG): BB = 4.5, t22459
Pre Flop: (t10500) Hero is BTN with 7
7
3 folds, Hero raises to t11000, EriBobo raises to t40000, scruds raises to t70515 all in
My thoughts on the hand is this. 77 is probably the bottom of my raise call range vs 1 shove here. I know shoving 77 here is the less variance play but my main question is whether or not 77 would be ok to raise call in this spot. If we shove we pick up just under a 10% increase if they both fold. Seems ok but I think we can get a very wide range to shove over us with percieved fold equity vs my 22bb button raise.
Therefore is it best to raise call 77 here or should it be added to 22-66 where we just shove pre?
When the action goes SB 4x 3bet & a BB shove. I presume we have no option but to fold here (which is what I did)
Would be interested to know what exactly people's induce range here is & what people's shove range here is.
Many Thanks
Dan
especially in a turbo tourney id shove here everytime.
as played you made an easy fold
vs an unknown i'd probably raise-call (induce as you put it) with something like TT+ AQ or AJs+
in this spot i'm with bada and probably just jam the 77 pre too
Depends how good the blinds are. If they're regs it's an easy r/c because they should be shoving something like 22+ A8+ KJ+ JTs+ in the expectation that we'll be r/f our button a decent % of the time. However, if we've been overly tight or the blinds are fishy then their 3bet shove range tightens significantly and we should probably just jam. I don't like this though because they never call off with lower pairs, whereas they should be jamming them all the time if we just minraise.
Against a 3B and a shove, I have to fold.
The main reason I fold is the SB, with his/her action still to come you could be in a three way pot with a low/mid pocket pair. At best you are hoping for is each of them has two overs and they over lap. AK/AK, at worst they both have two over pairs……then you are praying to the poker gods, or run like bigdog and bink a set like it is as easy as breathin.
Had there only been action from one player in a turbo with the stacks as they are, I jam.
Here is a question, how much does SERB24/the UTG player with 4.5 BBs come into the decision making process? Or does he at all? Either way, I know he/she is loving this action.
I don't think you can really raise fold in this spot UNLESS the action goes down the exact way that it did. Like they said above if the 2 players in the blinds are solid regs I probably min raise button and get them to shove with worse (22-66 Ax) and call. If not, shoving is fine too. I mean you are 6 handed with 77, you surely aren't folding. The fact that serb24 has 4.5 bb's is good for you because if you jam, you are putting a lot of pressure on the blinds, assuming they realize the short stack. For the simple fact that it's a turbo and if you are readless on the blinds I probably just rip it in. Taking advantage of these spots is vital, especially in turbos.
He should not come into it as there are 30 left & ICM is meaningless atm.
QuadJokers said:
He should not come into it as there are 30 left & ICM is meaningless atm.
Ahhh…missed the 30 left.
With the way played, I think I fold and preserve the 20bb stack….at best you are flipping in this spot multi way. Now if you get a 3 bet shove from 1 of the 2 blinds, snap it off.
i would never just shove because you might get ace rags and smaller pairs to fold…raise/call…obv a fold with the BB 4 bet shoving…however, if they both had like 12 bigs and under…id probably just shove making it look weak..but with their stacks..they might think they have a little fold equity.
the_dude said:
i would never just shove because you might get ace rags and smaller pairs to fold…raise/call…obv a fold with the BB 4 bet shoving…however, if they both had like 12 bigs and under…id probably just shove making it look weak..but with their stacks..they might think they have a little fold equity.
how do you usaully play if you mini, 15BB stack call from the Big Blind. Board is like: Q52 or K62.
Do you cbet? Check back? Do you just stack of if they Checkraise.
Would be really good to hear how people play postflop if they mini 66-99 at the bottom.
mategott said:
how do you usaully play if you mini, 15BB stack call from the Big Blind. Board is like: Q52 or K62.
Do you cbet? Check back? Do you just stack of if they Checkraise.
Would be really good to hear how people play postflop if they mini 66-99 at the bottom.
yeah it's so frustrating when you raise to induce and the BB or SB flat calls with like 10-15bbs
it used to be alarm bells ringing when they flat with that stack size but nowadays i see so many of these hands go to showdown and they have like J9s or A3 or 44 etc etc
my opinion on your question, in a lower buy in MTT with 77 on the Q52 board i'm just gonna bet get it in.. if villain can flat call with that stack size pre and OOP he can probably get it in with that A3 or 44 or even like KJ
it's pretty yuck i know but.. meh
guess thats why shoving pre is a bettter line for me with 22-99 in this spot in a lower buy in tourney to avoid that situation
interesting spot. the SB has a high 3b frequency so i think r/c him is fine. if both blinds were fishy and flatted way too much with shallow stacks then open shoving is fine. i also think this is a spot where the they can easily call our shove wider than they would reshove themselves, since we'd be r/c a stronger range instead of open stuffing. but it depends on your image really. if you havet opened much and/or your blind steal % is very low then minR looks strong there so i might just open stuff. but they cud hardly be being attention anyway and just playing their hands so i dunno. its kinda of a spot where open stuffing your hand is pretty transparent to low to mid pp and like suited broadways but its pretty non exploitable cuz their calling ranges are prob not ideal anyway. it can go either way really but im slightly leaning towards open stuffing.
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