View Plans & Pricing

If you are signed in and are seeing this message, please be sure you have selected a user name in My Profile. The forum requires it.
A A A
Search

— Forum Scope —




— Match —





— Forum Options —





Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters

Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 Topic Rating: 0 (0 votes) 
sp_TopicIcon
To fire the 3rd barrel or not, that is the question.
reliableJAKE
Guppy
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
December 25, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
1
February 26, 2021 - 10:58 pm
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Hi all, 

 

This hand is from a $5.25 bounty tournament on GG poker. Got into an interesting spot and i’d like to get everybody’s opinion on whether or not you think the 3rd barrel on the river would be a good play. Also feel free to comment on any earlier decision points in the hand smile

  We’re roughly half way through the tournament, i have recently been moved to this table and have very little info on any of the other players. Blind intervals are 10 minutes. Its an 8 handed table, of which one player has 11 big blinds and the others all have a minimum of 30 big blinds. The hand is as follows:

 

8 players post ante of 60 , SB posts 200, BB posts 400. Pot: 1080

Folds to Hero in UTG+1 holding As 6d and 42.5 bb’s behind (17,000). We open 2x. Action then folds to the HJ who flats off a stack of 115 bb’s (46,000). Everybody else folds so we are heads up to the flop with a pot of 2,680 and an SPR of about 6.

 

The flop comes Qs Ks 3c. Hero bets 1,120. Villain flats. We go to the turn with 4,920 in the pot.

 

The turn brings the 3s, completing the flush draw and pairing the bottom card. Hero bets 3,120. Villain flats again. We go to a river with 11,160 in the pot and a pot sized bet behind for hero. 

 

The river is the 2c, the brickiest brick that’s ever bricked. Now we have to decide do we want to follow through here with the 3rd barrel. If so is this a good combination to do it with? If we do fire again, is it always just all in? Can we just give up here instead? Let me know what you guys think and i’ll post results ASAP.

 

I will say quickly that upon review of this hand im unhappy having opened this hand pre in the first place, especially noting that the big blind only has 11 bigs behind and should shove pretty wide, to which i’d have to fold. I think the more interesting and less obvious decisions come post flop so i’d really like some feedback on that smile. Also it’s a first time post so lmk any ways i can make the post more informative/easier to digest etc. Thanks.

MackNova
Playing Freerolls
Members
Forum Posts: 12
Member Since:
December 21, 2018
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
2
February 28, 2021 - 4:14 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print sp_EditHistory
0

A6o is way too light an open from UTG+1. It might be the worst ace you can have since it isn’t suited and has no straight capabilities and isn’t big enough to have a pair of 6s be worth anything all that often. A fold preflop would be better. Sure, if it gets through to the blinds and you play them in position, it could work out, but if anyone flats/raises behind you, you’re playing a pot out of position with a weak hand, where there aren’t many boards you feel comfortable stacking off on. 

Flop is tricky, but I lean towards checking. It smashes villain’s range. Sure, it hits your range, too, but this isn’t a BB range – this is a HJ flatting range. Most of his hands are going to have either a pair or a good draw. You’re only really folding out suited aces, low suited connectors, and some underpairs, and a lot of those hands you can probably get to fold later if you check and they don’t bet. If I didn’t have the spade, I would just check flop and hope for a bluffing opportunity later in the hand, or fold if he bets anything reasonable on the flop. It’s nitty, but you have so many hands with more equity here, and it isn’t a given he bluffs the flop if he does have a hand that would have folded to a bet.

Once the spade comes on the turn, I think you have to go for it. You have a nut advantage on this board. You have all the KK and QQ while your opponent likely raises that. You block any ace-high flushes. 

The only real flushes your opponent should have are like JT, J9, T9, 98, 87, 76. Some opponents flat wider, some will fold some of those hands and allow for even fewer flushes. And if he doesn’t have a flush, he has a really tough decision. Maybe he got frisky with A3s on the flop, but no A3 options have backdoor flush draws. So KQ is the worst scenario? And KQ has to worry about you having a flush or pocket aces, or even A3. Some KQ would raise flop. A hand like JTs might also raise flop with the open-ended straight flush draw. 

A lot of queens might have folded on the turn, which is annoying, but your opponent also could have a Q with a jack or ten of spades and stick around with that. But if your opponent has KJ here, he probably should fold, and that’s one of the best hands he could have. Getting people to fold top pair is difficult, but the way you’ve played your hand, you’re repping AK, AA, KK, QQ, and flushes, and your story checks out. 

Once you get to the river, are there any worse hands in your range than A6o? JTs might be the only one. You have so many nut hands available to you, and your opponent has so few. 

It’s an annoying spot, but if you’re going to raise preflop, bet flop, bet turn, and you reach the river with no made hand, and a blocker to the most important card in the deck, you have to go for it. This is also where it’s helpful to have a read on your opponents. If you think they call too much and are there to gamble, then check-fold on the flop. If you think they are nitty and fearful of their tournament life at all, then betting flop with the intention of triple-barreling if a spade turns isn’t a bad option.

reliableJAKE
Guppy
Members
Forum Posts: 3
Member Since:
December 25, 2020
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
3
March 3, 2021 - 1:57 am
sp_Permalink sp_Print
0

Yep i agree with you on most points here Mack. The critical error is clearly the pre flop open from us. Perhaps i could defend the decision if we were some kind of overwhelming chip leader or had the table pegged as very weak players, but neither of these things were the case in this scenario. 

 

On the flop i decided to bet because i realised my hand was almost certainly behind and i wanted to continue telling the story of strength and keep the strongest part of my range (AA, KK, QQ, AK) alive. These hands would certainly want to bet for value/protection on such a wet board and i would like to bet my draws some of the time here too. I dont think my nut hands would check here very often if at all. By betting the flop i am trying to fold out some Qx and pairs below the Q. I agree that without the ace of spades i would definitely lean towards checking and folding to most bets, but having the nut spade blocker it seemed like a good spot to start applying pressure to the villain, given that i deemed it unlikely i can get to/win a showdown here. I plan to fold to raises on the flop, continue betting on spade/blank turns and re assessing on turns that pair the K or Q or other broadway cards. 

 

I agree that on the turn once the spade comes we need to go for it again. It was part of my plan to continue barrelling spade turns and i found it more appealing that it was the 3 of spades which paired the board. I loved this card even more because it means my strongest hands (KK, QQ) would also want to keep shovelling money into the pot and they need not worry about my opponent hitting the flush. If this was a spade but didnt pair the 3, perhaps my sets and two pairs may elect to check some portion of the time for fear villain has the flush. I can still have bluffs in my range too with hands like AJ, AT and hands like the one i have, a bare spade. I want to continue putting pressure on Qx, which should mostly fold to a bet now, and some weaker Kx hands. As you said i have a fair nut advantage here as villain likely 3 bets KK and QQ pre and raises with KQ on the flop. Also agree that JTs likely raises the flop more often than not so i’m not overly concerned about flushes at this point. Betting seems good here and i think sizing is ok although i wouldnt mind sizing up a touch more. 

 

Once they call this turn bet, i have to be a bit concerned. Most Qx should be in the muck by now but as you said perhaps some with a spade kicker have hung around. It feels like im against Kx here quite a bit but what Kx does he really have? KJ or maybe K with the Ten of spades very occasionally. Either way i agree with you that we have to go for it for the reasons mentioned. I can have all the nut hands, where they have few, plus i block the best flush and i seemingly have almost 0 showdown value (and if i did have any, the hands im beating would be foolish to check behind). 

 

All signs pointed to the river bet and thats what we did. We shove for 100% pot and villain calls very quickly and shows down Kc Js for top pair. Barring the pre flop open, i like the decisions throughout this hand. I wonder if he calls this shove with KJ without a spade? It is a pretty relevant card for them to have and i think it makes their call somewhat better?

Perhaps trying to get people to fold top pair in a $5 bounty tournament is not the best strategy when they have that extra incentive if they call and are right. Anyway, thanks for your thoughts.

Forum Timezone: America/New_York

Most Users Ever Online: 2780

Currently Online:
25 Guest(s)

Currently Browsing this Page:
1 Guest(s)

Top Posters:

bennymacca: 2616

Foucault: 2067

folding_aces_pre_yo: 1133

praetor: 1033

theginger45: 924

P-aire 146: 832

Turbulence: 768

The Riceman: 731

duggs: 591

florianm1: 588

Newest Members:

alexalex2015

oneout2many

JLPicard

Jackarmi

WSOPstar2B

LuckyEva

Forum Stats:

Groups: 4

Forums: 24

Topics: 12705

Posts: 75003

 

Member Stats:

Guest Posters: 1063

Members: 11988

Moderators: 2

Admins: 5

Administrators: RonFezBuddy, Killingbird, Tournament Poker Edge Staff, ttwist, Carlos

Moderators: sitelock, sitelock_1