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ACoimbra Challenge....
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ShootingGallery
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August 9, 2013 - 1:34 am
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Hey all,

 

I started to write out a long ass history of who I am and where I am with poker than realized, that for most, that would be pretty boring, so I'm going to sum some things up.  I've been playing for just over 2 years.  I started playing on Stars almost exactly a month after Black Friday.  In that time I've made regular deposits on the site, and only one cashout after winning a Bigger $5.50 in Jan 2012.

I would like to stop depositing. I joined TPE with that as a primary goal along with overall improvements in my game.

 

I followed up my joining of TPE by immediately toasting my bank roll.     Yay me.

 

So I'm putting on another $100.  The goal here is to make this the LAST $100 that I ever deposit on the site.  I have TPE here to help me imporove,  I have Mr. Coimbra's blogs to lead me down the path, and I have the skill and desire to make this work. The last thing I need is a bit of cheering section.  I leave that to you fellow TPErs, and hope you'll follow me on my journey.

 

I won't be able to pull off the same kind of volume and Andre, as I'll be returning to my full time job next week, but I will endevour to put in as much volume as I can (I'm going to hold of on a goal for this untill I see how my hours are once I'm back.)  The road to my 100K will inevitably be slower than 1 year, but I will endevour to get there no matter how long it takes.

 

I'll come back to this post and keep you all up to date as often as possible (at least once a week) until my goal is achieved or until they kick me out of here!

See ya around.

A. J.

"Remember, play tight. Nothing less than 83 suited."
Play Good, Run Good.

Tracy Marrow
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August 9, 2013 - 7:21 am
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Are you going to ape Andre with the stakes? Start where he did, move up as he did…

 

It would be very interesting to read about what you took from what Andre has tried, and how your experience is the same or different.

 

Get sharing your steps with us all. Good luck.

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Killingbird
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August 9, 2013 - 11:55 am
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good luck good luck!

 

stay focused and be strict about the bankroll.

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ShootingGallery
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August 9, 2013 - 2:45 pm
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Tracy: Basically yes.  I'm going to be sticking with his “No more than 1% of BR” system.  And I'm going to follow his lines as cloesly as possible.  As of Right now, I'm not completly up to speed on everything Andre has done/achieved.  Loxxii was kind enough to direct me to his blog, and from that came my decision to take on the challenge.  I'll be doing a lot of studying along the way as well since clearly Andre started from a much better poker base than I have.  Also, because of this I'm not expecting the same type of imediate results that he was able to achieve.

But like the tortoise, slow and steady wins the race…..hopefully! lol.

KB: That's the idea.  I just wish there was some sort of electronic “Shock Collar” type of device I could attach so that if I ever tried to “Take a shot” it was just zap the stupid out of me!  Unfortunately, it looks like I'm gonna have to put on my own “big boy pants” and just not be a spaz!

 

Ok, Updates coming soon.

"Remember, play tight. Nothing less than 83 suited."
Play Good, Run Good.

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Carlos
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August 9, 2013 - 4:40 pm
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Also, search Andre's blog for the 2 study sessions he did with TPE's own Andrew Brokos. They recorded them and I belief there is over 3 hours of teaching. Not to mention all of his TPE vids and the articles on his blog Thinking Poker. IMO, he is the best poker teacher making vids that I have seen. As far as the best poker author, I'd have to go with Ed Miller. They explain things thoroughly and make sure you get it as opposed to just covering material. This is the difference between good and bad teachers (I have experience with this).

 

If you follow RonFezBuddy's advice and use this as an opportunity to learn as opposed to making as much money as possible, you will get exponentially better.

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ShootingGallery
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August 9, 2013 - 8:59 pm
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I'll definately look for that Lox.  I'm a long time fan on Thinking Poker (Found it on it's 2nd week and haven't missed an episode yet.)

The goal of this challenge is learning more than earning for sure.  I'm mostly kidding about the 100K side of it. Honestly, there isn't really an end point to this, other than becoming the best poker player I can be.

"Remember, play tight. Nothing less than 83 suited."
Play Good, Run Good.

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ShootingGallery
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August 10, 2013 - 8:08 am
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First day of my Challenge went very similar to Andre's. 

I started playing a mix of $1 and $0.50 tourneys ranging in players from 45 to 360.  This is probably a mistake.  After reading the first week or so of Andre's blogs, I decided to drop the $1's out of my play for now.  I still mixed player ranges however.

I ended up playing 40 tournaments, and finished down about $20.

I did however get A LOT of studying in.  I was kind of all over the place with my study however.  Everything from Watching Andrew Brokos' Hand reading series (very interesting/helpfull) to some of HITTHEPANDA's 45 man video.  Add to that reading Andres blogs and starting to read the MTTSNG “Welcome” thread's suggested reading on 2+2.

I'm really trying to concentrate my efforts right now on figuring out push/fold dynamics and how to adjust my play in the different levels of the tournent.  Some of it is refresher for me, but clearly I need it.

I've decided I'm going to follow Andre's lead again, and stick strickly to the $0.50 45 mans until I get back to my starting $100.  Then I'll move up to 90 mans.  If my BR gets down to $50 though, I'll drop down to the $0.25 45 mans.

That's all for today. 

Thoughts and comments allways appreciated.

Thanks,

A. J.

"Remember, play tight. Nothing less than 83 suited."
Play Good, Run Good.

Tracy Marrow
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August 12, 2013 - 2:15 pm
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Shooting Gallery, I have thought about doing the same since your post: like you it is not about a money goal, but just to develop a solid game. I normally play the $3.50 tournaments on Stars, and have cracked open a couple of .50c tournaments. They are so different! 7 to the flop… bets on the flop that are about 1/6 of the pot, and take the pot down…

I understand what Killingbird means when he says stay focused and be strict on the bankroll. It is very tempting to fire up some higher buy-in tournaments…, and getting bored seems to be a potential hazard at such low levels (stake and standard)… I am not even sure if they would help me develop a solid game because it is a little crazy… The fact that they are turbos make this worse too. On the other hand, perhaps these tournaments offer many opportunites to be more disciplined and more solid.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts and experiences.

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ShootingGallery
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August 13, 2013 - 4:22 am
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Well, it's been a rough couple of days. So far, I've played 170 + tournements, and I'm down $26 or so.  That's the bad news.  The good news?  Things are getting better.

The 45 mans are/were a rough one to get used to.  At first I was almost 100% Push/Fold, and quite frankly, my push/fold game, well…. Sucks.  Because of this, I wasn't seeing much in the way of final tables.  I actually abandoned the 45 mans for a little while and decided I was only going to play the 360 mans.  Over all, I feel these are a little better value for me.  They seem to offer a little more “Play” and in the end, if you win one, you make up A LOT more ground ($33 first place, as opposed to $6.30 in the 45 mans.)  Of course, more runners means, more varience, but overall, I seem to do better in these than in the 45 mans.

But the 360 mans come with an additional problem.  They don't fill up very quickly.  Especially if, like I do, you play mostly at night.  So after running away from the 45's for a day or so, I started filtering them back into my play to fill my screen while I waited for 360's to fill up.  And you know what?  I found a way to find “play” in those too.

I'm finding my way to more FTs, which is good.  Sometimes I'm busting out in 8th or 9th (out of the money in the 45s) but I'm finding my way into the money as well.  I haven't won a tournament yet since the start of my challenge, but I have a couple of 3rds, and 1 second, as well as some smaller cashes.  It's help my BR rebound a little from it's low of $64. 

I've been doing some more studying.  Going over the 45 Man Strat guide on 2+2, reading Andre's blog, going over some video's and posts right here on our very own TPE.  I also followed Andre's lead and picked up a digital copy of Kill Everyone.  Just started reading it tonight, and was suprised how much it got me thinking about almost right away.  It starts out talking about the LAG style of some of the top pros.  Up until now, I've pretty much tried to play a straight TAG style (and of course added my own spazzy tendencies to such,) but this is the first time I've ever really ready anything that had to do with the structure of how a good LAG style works.  I tried to put a little into practice in some of my later sessions tonight/this morning, and of course I over did it at first.  But I think I'm starting to get to a point where I'm incorperating bits and peices into my game.

 

Sticking to BR management and to these 50 cent tournements only has been a challenge.  I allowed myself one indulgence on Sunday, playing the Nightly $55 30K.  This is a tournament that I've played from time to time as a replacement to playing the $70 nightly tournement at Ceasar Windsor.  It's well outside of my BR, but I make a seperate deposite for these when I play them.  I find that they have better value than the nightly's at the casino, and frankly, the rewards are better (even if the Ceasars nightly gets 50 players on a Sunday…which is rare… First is only worth just over $1K, and most of the time, the regs in there start looking to chop as early as 5 people….then you get to be the outcast if you don't want to chop, yadda yadda…) Anyway, no cash in that one, so right back to the 45's and 360's.

The reason I bring it up at all, is 1)Because it felt like cheating on the challenge, and I kind of wanted to confess the cheat, and 2) Becasue it was and interesting experience going from the super micro's, to what I kind of refer to as mid stakes (I know, it's not really mid stakes, but to an ultra micro grinder it is! :P)  The biggest stand out to me is how similar some of the play was in some instances.  I had noticed it before when I played these tournements, but it was so pronounced this time that it was kind of shocking.

As a poker player, starting out in the micros, you kind of look at those higher buy-in tournements as “The Big Leagues.” You assume that since you're pounding away trying to figure out all the minutia of the game, that everyone at those stakes has already done the same, and are then obviously much better poker players than you.  And in some cases, for the really good players, I'm sure this is true.  But it doesn't take long to figure out that for a lot of people in those tournements, the ability to buy in to a tournement does not equate to skill level.

And of course this is true.  It's as true at the $55 dollar level as it is at the $1K level, as it is at the $10K WSOP Main event.  And while this may not be a lesson to many people here, at the very least, for guys like me, it's a sign that maybe all this micro grinding may be worth it one day.

And that just makes me more eager to grind out, and start winning at the micros!!

 

Here's my Graph So far:
Image Enlarger

Thanks for reading, feedback, comments, thoughts questions, jokes and concerns are always welcome!

l8r,

A. J.

"Remember, play tight. Nothing less than 83 suited."
Play Good, Run Good.

Sen
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August 13, 2013 - 5:12 am
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I wish you GL for your challange.

I came from a very similar starting point as you do. Deposited $50 and never wanted to deposit again.

You can find some good info about the toruneys I played to bring my $50 to $2500 in one month:

…..ks-to-tpe/

Tracy Marrow
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August 14, 2013 - 4:52 pm
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Sen, congratulations. It would be good to read an update of how things have gone since then. (I know you said that that thread was going to be a bit like a poker diary for you.)

Some random thoughts/experiences to share, comments (etc) very welcome:

I have been doing what Shooting Gallery has been doing, and playing 50c tournaments on Stars. After about 30 I am pretty much break-even (up about .75c!) Nothing to report about yet, but big bluffs do not work, small bluffs do and it is hard (sometimes impossible) to put some of the other players on a hand. As mentioned above, I normally play the (slightly) higher tournaments and have a better feel for what is going on there (though this is probably just as much experience as the randomness of the 50c tournaments. It is very, very tempting to return to those higher stakes… but I want to exercise the discipline to stay at this level until I 'deserve' to go up. Discipline is a problem with my game generally… so hopefully this 'bankroll' discipline will translate into discipline at the tables too.

I'll probably abandon this soon though because I don't multitable (no more than 4 at once), and don't wish to play all the time either… I hope I keep it up though. Already starting to talk myself out of discipline…

On the other hand though, I don't play poker online for the cash. More for the intellectual interest, and the challenge of trying to get better… (Live poker is a little different, here I do play to try to win for the cash. Advice on my local tourney was sought here: …..ge-sought/ Though what Andre has done is impressive, and hopefully what Shooting Gallery will do too will be, and demonstrates that cash can be made at the small stakes. Perhaps I can build solid foundations even at the 50c level, perhaps it is even a great place to do so **because** of how crazy it is…

I don't know, some waffle! Any comments, and thoughts generally or for the micro-micros (!) very welcome…

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ShootingGallery
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August 15, 2013 - 3:12 pm
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I really love this game.

As I said off the top, I've only been playing poker for just over 2 years now, and I fell in love with the game pretty quickly.  With the exception of a small stint in March/April of last year, I've played just about every day since then.  I've played cash, tournements, super small stakes, and even some bigger ($215) buy in tournements.  I play online mostly, but I've played live in Casinos and even run what has been refered to as THE BEST home game in my area (Biased opinion of course, but I'll take it.)

I watch a lot of poker as well.  WSOP, Poker After Dark, Pokerstars Big Game, WPT, and on and on and on. I read poker books, and poker magazines and poker blogs and websites and whatever else I can get my hands on.

 

My wife plays a little and enjoys the game, and suffers me my poker endulgences.  Even my kids are interested in the game, just because they're around it so much.  My youngest daughter (6) even wanted a “Poker birthday cake, just like daddy's!” for her birthday.  We thought that might be just slightly too degen, so we made her Froggy cupcakes instead.  She loves frogs, so she was pretty happy with that.

I suppose my story isn't that much different from thousands of other people out there.  To me, it feels like I probably want to be succefull at this game more than anyone else ever could, but in the end I'm sure that there are plenty of other people who feel the same way.

I also suppose that my desire to be successful at this game is one the reasons I seem to tilt so easily.  And tilting easily is NOT a good thing when it comes to this game.

I suppose at this point, you've probably figured out the past couple of days have not been succesful as far as my challenge goes.  Financially, that would be true.  I'm down to almost half my starting stack.

Looks like it's going to be time to drop down stakes.  The good news is I think a lot of my problem has to do with playing too many tables.  I went on runs durring this latest downswing when I was playing upwards of 10 tables, when normaly I only play 4.

I actually think that even 4 tables may be too many for me right now.  I need to focus, I need to concentrate and I need to make some Final tables.

Thanks to everyone who has comented so far.  Your feedback is appreciated, and I'm glad to see others coming along with me.  Good varience to anyone else out there who might be coming along, but doesn't feel the desire to post about it as well (though we'd love to have you with us!)

OK, well, here I go, dropping down stakes and trying to build up my bank roll again.  I'll see you 50 centers again in once I build my roll back up to $75.

 

l8r,

A. J.

"Remember, play tight. Nothing less than 83 suited."
Play Good, Run Good.

Tracy Marrow
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August 17, 2013 - 1:08 pm
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I have been doing what shooting gallery has been doing for about a week now and am up $15. I am more pleased about staying disciplined and keeping to the 50c tourneys. I have never really had a roll – always just chucked money on stars to play with – and never thought of my cash on stars as a roll. Now I do think of it as a roll, and I think this is an important mindset. It gives a persepctive wider than just one tourney, which I think is useful – a bad beat… so what… – and adds a helpful sense of a mission.

 

This cash has come fairly easily, and I regularly make the final tables and am in the money. I don't play more than 2 tables at a time, and I think this really helps. Some thoughts for ShootingGallery: until you are winning more regularly, consider cutting down on the number of tables you play. This is perhaps particularly so if you have a problem with tilt: now I don't have an issue with tilt (possibly a function of the ultra low stakes) but in the past if I suffered from a bad beat or making a stupid call (or other bad play by me) it would annoy me and more importantly instantly affect how I played on the other tables (with disastrous consequences!). Also, relax a little! It sounds like you are investing too much emotionally into your tournaments – this may be affecting your play – and will, as you state, make you tilt more. Every tournament is likely to provide reasons for tilt, and the more players in the tournament the higher the chance – in the 45 mans there is often one or two defining moments – bad beats, suck outs… (sometimes no major moments), whereas in the 90 mans I find there are several. Given your tilt tendencies perhaps consider playing more 45 mans than 90 mans.

Caveat: I think I have played less than 100 of these tournaments, so everything I say could be wrong and just reflect my small sample.

 

Comments from anyone and everyone very welcome regarding this, and playing in the shallow end!

Tracy Marrow
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September 1, 2013 - 1:22 pm
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Just a brief update mainly because there are a few of these threads that start out with hope… and then fade away. i followed some of the forum links on one or two of the TPE university threads and they started out interesting before withering away. I'd love to know how these members' stories ccontinued.

 

As for me, I have not played very much online since my last message above – holiday reasons – but did get up to $22 up. Nothing dramatic and no change in the analysis/thoughts of that from last time. Have listened to a few TPE podcasts whilst doing holiday things, very enjoyable.

 

Just fired up a couple to get cracking again, and already lost a flip in L1 to get knocked out of one tournament. Not worried though, it often takes me a tournament or three to warm up.

Will report back on (hopeful) progress in due course.

Tracy Marrow
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September 1, 2013 - 1:54 pm
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A little p.s. One small thing I have noticed is how my posture affects my play. Slouched on a couch, not so good; upright, more focused… Just one more little thing that can make a difference.

Ch1pCh0p
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September 2, 2013 - 8:54 pm
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Glad things are going well. Just wanted to add that if you are trying to grind out a roll try a couple other sites as they are way easier than stars. I play on FullTilt and started at the $2.25 1 table NL – easier than stars by far and the good part is that if you wanted to put some on stars from your FullTilt bankroll you can transfer right from your poker account.
Have to say that in these games their are a ton of fish, God they play awful terrible, after the first couple games I thought it was a joke, crushing these will be no problem.

Grow some Balls and get it in

Tracy Marrow
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September 4, 2013 - 5:54 am
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Thanks for the comments Ch1PCh0p, much appreciated. I might try full-tilt. For me, it is less about a roll than about getting better at poker which for me means, in a major way, more discipline! I let myself down too often when playing. I would have much better scores at this level, if I was consistently disciplined… I am seeing it a bit like a computer game and wanting to progress through the levels. Getting a roll this way would take a long, long time… and be maddening!

 

As an update: things have not been going well recently. I have been trying to get back into it after a short break, and have cashed once or twice in about 15 tournaments. Some bad luck – I had KK cracked twice in the same tournament, for example – but some bad play too.

In some ways I think that the low stakes don't help the discipline: 50c does not encourage disciplined play.

In other ways it should help: the play is sometimes so surprising (and downright awful) that it should be training 'discipline muscles'. Yes, you are seeing bad play, but fight it… don't join in… you see bad play rewarded sometimes… don't let it make you stray from how you should be playing… ultimately disciplined play should be rewarded.

Any thoughts on this very welcome.

Ch1pCh0p
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September 4, 2013 - 8:37 pm
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I know what your feeling for sure, don’t get discouraged. At the micro stakes don’t min raise or everyone will come along just for a ride. Those players (most of them) have no idea what they are doing and they have no idea what to fold. When your selecting a hand to open, raise pre at least 3x if not 4x in the early stages.

Also with bad players if their are multi limps for cheap go along, if you catch something they will often call u the donk. 🙂 its hilarious

Grow some Balls and get it in

checkiechan1
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September 30, 2013 - 10:13 pm
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Its good to see that theres other players trying to grind out these 45 mans too trying to build a bankroll, i was breakeven until a nice downswing kinda knocks the conifdence but going to put in volume when i can and review my games and see that my push fold games getting better  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/lv?key=0AiRCAFDKL6fIdHE0QWt5elZMUkU4YzVrSlBVZk5EMFE#gid=0 this was posted in a forum post in the strag section that i've been using as my late game with ~10 BB seems to suck and try learn more the maths and general volume. Good luck to yous and see yous in the 45 man micros!

Also for ShootingRange with tilt if you enjoy podcasts look up jared tendlers one 'the mental game' might help with you're tilt he was has two books the mental game 1 and 2 that are meant to be really good (ive never read them)

Marsh345
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October 29, 2013 - 3:25 pm
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Im in much the same boat as many of you guys. Grinding up a BR to be able to play mtt’s and start making a bit of cash. At the minute i am playing 888.com Double or Nothings. Playing $5.5 games with a roll of around $300 which isn’t huge however these games are so weak that im doubling up nearly every game(the odd bad beat). I too am struggling with the low stakes 45 mans 90 mans on stars. There seems to be so many donks that i just cant adjust my play yet. I will persevere as there def seems like easy money to be made if i can get my game to suit. find the temptation however to play a mtt that im not rolled for eg a few $5 tournies too hard to resist which end up slowing the br growth. However i do agree with your idea Tracy i think tht getting better lots of study is the key. A good podcast i listened to earlier was the one with Hagbert celine and hitthepanda on bet sizing. I added it in to my game a couple of days ago and the benefits seemed to show almost instantly. Hopefully not just runing good. GL with your challenge/goals keep posting its an interesting …..le.gifread.

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