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Video on Opening Ranges and Stack Size based on BB
wangtangkiki
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May 10, 2012 - 6:12 am
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I can't find a video that speaks about what hands you should actually open. I've watched several videos that say “This is an open” or “This is a fold”, but they don't go into details why. I also can't find a video that describes how I should play with my specific stack.. I read an article by Bond18 that described 0-10bb strategy, 14-21bb strategy, (i guess 10-13bb is missing lol).. 22-30bb, 30-40bb and 40+.. Is there a video detailing this? I know it's bad to be raise/folding 10-20bb, but I can't find a video that explains this.

 

I have trouble when I have around 18-24bb in EP with a baby pocket pair.. like 22-66.. I think I'm too deep to just jam, and I really only feel comfortable r/c a 10bb~ shove.. 

 

So basically are there any articles/videos on opening ranges based on position/stack size, and how to play based on your stack size?

 

Thanks

takedown
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May 10, 2012 - 12:24 pm
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I'm not sure about a specific video that talks about stack sizes.

 

In your example with the baby pairs in EP.  You are too deep to jam that many bb, with so many people to get through.  There are a couple things you can do. 

 

Fold – we make up for this by restealing against late position openers with a 20bb stack where we don't need much of a hand.  It might seem weak, but you'll see it all the time in the videos.  With 18bb-22bb I'm snap folding because if I raise and c-bet I'm going going to be below 20bb.  As the stack gets lower I lean more towards folding.

 

Min raise / fold – At a table that is not 3 bet happy this might be ok, but I usually only consider this with around 24-25bb.  If I min raise, get a caller, c-bet and then get pushed off the hand my stack will still be around 20bb and I haven't lost my reshove stack fold equity.  The only draw back to this is you are in ep and will go through the blinds soon so you are going to drop below 20bb.

 

This brings up something that a lot of pros recommend.  A lot of stack size mistakes can be avoided by looking at what will happen if you lose and where your stack will be.  If it will be below 20bb online or below 15bb live (in an average $100-$500 field) then you should make sure it has a pretty good chance of succeeding, otherwise you are going to be taking away your best weapon which is to put max pressure on pre flop by restealing all in against an opener or opener and flatters.

 

Limp – may be ok at some tables, but in a typical online game it's not going to be profitable because someone will raise. 

 

Limp / reraise all in – a variation of the limp, but one where you limp, which some times causes a bunch of limpers, or someone raises behind.  If the person that raises behind is active, does a lot of isolating, I may decide to limp jam all in.  Live the limp / jam play works quite a bit because so often people do this with AA/KK/AK, I'm not sure how effective it is online.

 

I had one hand at the Venetian a few years back, new to the table, but in the orbit that I was there I could tell there were 3-4 good regs and the table would be tough, some raise flatting, some raise 3-betting, but a lot of pots with 3-4 players in the hand with people being 60bb deep at the time.  I hadn't played a hand yet and started with 22bb.  I had 99 utg, and typically I raise / go with it against an active player, but decided to try something different and limp.  Someone in middle position raised and then what appeared to be the best / most aggressive player behind him 3-bet and I decided it was a good point to 4-bet jam.  The opener then mucked very quickly and made some comment about me limp jamming from utg and how strong it was, the 3-bettor tanked for a bit, then folded AQ face up.  I over-repped my hand, but was able to fold out some of the flipping range and probably TT and maybe JJ as well with a lot of extra money in the pot.  BTW I was never going to limp, call a raise and try to play it OOP with the stack I had.  It was going to be either limp/jam or limp/fold against too much action.

 

Some general “rules” I go by for live, for online you can adjust, generally live you have greater fold equity, against a weak field, in both open jamming and rejamming spots, with less chips, because they don't see these big shoves enough, although that is changing a bit as more and more online players come out to play.  Also these are just general rules, you have to adjust based on the table, the people already in the hand, and the people behind and their chip stacks.  For example you might have a 30bb stack and decide to steal in late position with shit, but there are 3 stacks behind from 10-20bb, that's not a good spot to steal because they can jam on you easily.

 

0-16bb – looking for open jam spots.  or jamming over the top of limpers.  as I get into later position the range to jam with gets wider.  As my stack gets smaller my requirements for jamming in ep get wider as well because I don't want to go through the blinds again and have a miniscule stack. 

 

13-25bb – looking for a spot to rejam.  With the lower amount of bbs I need a better hand to get it in with because fold equity is lower.  Against late position raisers / active players the range I'll shove with is wider.  It all comes down to ranging the other players in the hand, figuring out if you are ahead of their range and/or have enough fold equity to get them to fold better.  Live I have seen people open late position, and I've shoved 13bb and they fold AQ face up.  Online there is no way that is happening.  Also with this stack, including the higher end, I'll jam over multiple limpers.  For example,  3 limps, I have 22bb and find KQ in the blinds, not a good spot to raise,  folding is weak, so jam it in.

 

24-30bb – On the lower end of this stack you can raise fold, but I rarely do it.  Depends a lot about the people behind and if they are tight / passive.  Again got to think about what your stack will be if you raise, get called, c-bet and they put in their stack and you have to fold.  With the higher end of this stack you have the ability to 3b/fold or 3b/call.  Someone opens 2.5, you can re-raise to 5-6x as a complete steal.

 

30-40bb – You have a lot of things you can do.  Raise to steal.  3b to steal.  Raise and c-bet.  Raise call it off.  I look at the 10 blinds between 30-40 has chips I can gamble with.  Once I get to 30 then I resort back to finding good spots to put max pressure on with 3b steals with decent hands.

 

Good luck!

wangtangkiki
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May 10, 2012 - 6:17 pm
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Thanks man, that was a really great post. I think you made an excellent point about how you should look to see what your stack will be after each move. If it's marginal, and you'll drop below 20bb, it's probably not worth it.

 

How do you feel about hands like QJ,KJ,KQ,KT in CO/HJ where you have 18-24 bb? Also the effective stacks are 18-24bb. It seems like r/c with QJ/KJ/KT are all bad, and sometimes even KQ. I guess it really depends on how light they resteal. I've seen some strategy that says you can shove there. I think r/f would be bad unless the guy that jams is an uber nit..

 

I also have problems with a hand like KQs around 18-24bb from UTG (I'm seeing a trend here lol).. I don't think it's the best strategy to r/c, or at least it doesn't look like it on the surface.  r/f seems bad also.. It's not the greatest of hands, but it seems kinda strong to fold.. I know that we would be OOP if called most of the time so that's kinda a hinderance to just raising.

jjfmumusc/beavslayer
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May 12, 2012 - 5:04 pm
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Thanks man, that was a really great post. I think you made an excellent point about how you should look to see what your stack will be after each move. If it’s marginal, and you’ll drop below 20bb, it’s probably not worth it. How do you feel about hands like QJ,KJ,KQ,KT in CO/HJ where you have 18-24 bb? Also the effective stacks are 18-24bb. It seems like r/c with QJ/KJ/KT are all bad, and sometimes even KQ. I guess it really depends on how light they resteal. I’ve seen some strategy that says you can shove there. I think r/f would be bad unless the guy that jams is an uber nit.. I also have problems with a hand like KQs around 18-24bb from UTG (I’m seeing a trend here lol).. I don’t think it’s the best strategy to r/c, or at least it doesn’t look like it on the surface.  r/f seems bad also.. It’s not the greatest of hands, but it seems kinda strong to fold.. I know that we would be OOP if called most of the time so that’s kinda a hinderance to just raising.
I think its game-flow/table dependent…..If you are having problems with KQs or A10o type hands UTG, then experiment with the other alternatives to what you are doing that are causing you problems(i.e. if you are r/f vs. a 3-bet, or having problems getting called and playing OOB then fold pre or make adjustments-i.e. is the villain(s) 3-betting you too light, then tighten up your open range, or widen your 4bet shove range….good to experiment imo. Obv. the answer is always, “it depends”, but like many things in poker, not always a cut-and-dry solution. GL!

ShaneWarne™
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May 18, 2012 - 1:05 pm
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Take a look at Brendooor's videos.

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